Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
If you dig the twisted, admire the outlandish, and are enamored by the unusual, you're in the right place. True crime, the supernatural, the unexplained. Now you're speaking our language. If you agree, join us as we dive into the darker side. You know, because it's more fun over here. Welcome to Total Conundrum.
[00:00:48] Speaker B: Warning.
[00:00:49] Speaker A: Some listeners may find the following content disturbing. Listener discretion is advised.
All right, Conundrum crew, picture this. You're filthy rich. You're haunted, cursed. And your solution? Build a house so bizarre that even ghosts get lost in it.
[00:01:11] Speaker B: I mean, it's not the worst idea. If I were being chased by vengeful spirits, I'd probably want a panic room or like, least a fake wall to run through.
[00:01:22] Speaker A: Yeah, because real walls hurt. But Sarah Winchester went all out. She built a 160 room mansion with staircases to nowhere, doors that lead straight into walls, and even a seance room that only she knew how to get out of.
[00:01:37] Speaker B: That right there. A red flag if a house requires a dedicated escape plan just to exit a room. I'm out a. Otherwise, I'd still be trapped in there like a rat in a cage.
[00:01:50] Speaker A: Yeah, escape rooms were never really your thing. But it gets weirder. This wasn't just some eccentric rich lady hobby. According to legend, Sarah Winchester was cursed, haunted by the ghosts of everyone ever killed by the Winchester rifles.
[00:02:05] Speaker B: And she wasn't just rich, she was loaded. We're talking modern day billion dollar inheritance vibes. But instead of, I don't know, taking a trip to Paris or investing in some early Apple stocks, she just never stopped building. Ever. Like 247 construction for 38 years.
[00:02:29] Speaker A: The sheer level of commitment is almost admirable. I didn't even finish my honeydew list, and this woman built an entire architectural fever dream to confuse the afterlife.
[00:02:39] Speaker B: And today, we're diving deep into the story of Sarah Winchester. Who she was, why she built this monstrosity, the legends surrounding it, and of course, the ghost who supposedly still roam its halls.
[00:02:52] Speaker A: Before we step into this architectural fever dream, don't forget to hit that like and subscribe button. If you're listening on Apple or Spotify, leave us a review. It helps more people find the show. And if you're on YouTube, tap that notification bell so you never miss a new episode. Your support keeps us going and we love hearing from you.
[00:03:11] Speaker B: And if you've got a wild story idea or a mystery we have to cover, let us know. You can reach us@totalconundrum.com or find us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. We love hearing from you, Conundrum crew.
[00:03:25] Speaker A: And because we love keeping you spooked and entertained, stick around till the end. We've got some killer podcast trailers from our friends at where the Weird Ones Are and gruesome and unnatural. Give them a listen and show them some love.
[00:03:39] Speaker B: All right, no more delays. Let's get lost in the endless hallways, confusing staircases, and ghostly whispers of the Winchester Mystery House.
[00:03:49] Speaker A: We'll be back after these messages. What's up, freaking weirdos? My name is Kevin, and I'm the host of where the Weird Ones Are podcast. This is a conversational podcast based on guest experiences and encounters with paranormal, cryptids, aliens, spirituality, mental health, as well as conspiracies.
If these topics interest you, you can find me on Amazon Music, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, as well as YouTube and Rumble. If you have an encounter or an experience of something that you can't quite explain, I'd love to hear from you. You can reach out to me at where the weird ones aremail.com where underscore the weird Ones Are on Instagram and where the Weird Ones Are on Facebook.
I hope to hear from you, my friends, Question everything and stay weird.
[00:05:06] Speaker B: And back to the show.
[00:05:08] Speaker A: Before we get into the ghosts, the seances, and the absolute architectural madness that is the Winchester house, let's talk about the woman behind it all, Sarah Winchester.
[00:05:20] Speaker B: Because every good ghost story starts with a rich, mysterious lady in Victorian black lace.
[00:05:27] Speaker A: Exactly. But before she was a spooky millionaire widow, she was just Sarah Lockwood Pardee, born in 1839 in New Haven, Connecticut. And get this, she wasn't just another socialite. Sarah was actually a total genius.
[00:05:43] Speaker B: Like an actual brainiac, not just I know how to work my iPhone better than my parents.
[00:05:50] Speaker A: Smart. Yep. She spoke four languages, was highly educated, and had a serious talent for architecture and design.
Something that will come in handy later when she starts building her horror funhouse.
[00:06:03] Speaker B: Honestly love that for her, Victorian women weren't exactly encouraged to be educated, let alone brilliant. But Sarah, she was out there breaking the 19th century glass ceiling before it was cool.
[00:06:17] Speaker A: And then in 1862, she married William Wort Winchester, heir to the Winchester Repeating Arms Company, AKA the people who made the rifle that, quote, won the west.
[00:06:29] Speaker B: Which is just marketing speak for this gun, played a major role in some of the bloodiest moments in history.
[00:06:37] Speaker A: Yeah, the Winchester rifle was a game changer. Fast, deadlier, and mass produced. It was used in the Civil War by lawmen and outlaws and in America's westward expansion. It made the Winchester family disgustingly rich, but also, if you believe in the legends, deeply cursed.
[00:06:56] Speaker B: And that's where things take a turn for Sarah, right? She's got the rich husband, the high society life, the Gilded Age glamour. And then tragedy strikes big time.
[00:07:08] Speaker A: In 1866, Sarah and Williams only child, Annie, was born, but she died just a few weeks later from a disease called marasmus, which basically meant her body couldn't absorb nutrients.
[00:07:21] Speaker B: That's brutal. And probably even worse. Back then, when medicine was basically try not to die and hope for the.
[00:07:28] Speaker A: Best, Sarah was devastated. And if that wasn't bad enough, 15 years later, in 1881, William died of tuberculosis, leaving her widowed at just 42 years old.
[00:07:41] Speaker B: So within two decades, she loses her baby and her husband. That's some serious Victorian gothic novel energy.
[00:07:50] Speaker A: Oh, for sure. And now Sarah is one of the richest women in America. She inherits $20 million, which today is like 600 million, plus a controlling stake in the Winchester Repeating Arms Company. And thanks to dividends, she was making about a thousand dollars a day every single day. Which today would be like getting handed 30 grand a day just for existing.
[00:08:13] Speaker B: Okay, so she's heartbroken, but also richer than God. What does she do? Does she travel the world? Throw extravagant parties, Marry some dashing count with a mysterious past?
[00:08:26] Speaker A: Nope. She does what anyone would do after inheriting an empire built on blood money. She consults a medium. Because obviously, that's the logical next step.
[00:08:37] Speaker B: I mean, to be fair, what else did people do in the 1880s? There was no therapy, no antidepressants, and no true crime podcast to distract you from your grief.
[00:08:48] Speaker A: Right, so according to legend, she visits a spiritualist in Boston who tells her something wild. She's being haunted by the spirits of everyone ever killed by a Winchester rifle.
[00:09:00] Speaker B: That's a lot of ghosts. Like an unmanageable number of ghosts. You'd need a waiting list to haunt her properly.
[00:09:08] Speaker A: Exactly. But the medium doesn't stop there. She tells Sarah there's only one way to escape the curse. She has to move west and build a house. And never stop building, because as long as the construction continues, she'll keep the spirits at bay.
[00:09:25] Speaker B: Okay, but question. Why does she just take this random ghost consultant's word for it? Like, did she yelp this medium beforehand?
[00:09:33] Speaker A: Good question. Maybe she was just desperate for answers. Or maybe after losing her husband and child, the idea of being haunted didn't seem so crazy anymore.
[00:09:43] Speaker B: Or maybe, just maybe, she was already a bit eccentric and this was the push she needed to go full blown. I'm gonna build the most unhinged mansion in America.
[00:09:55] Speaker A: Whatever the reason, she takes her fortune, moves to California, and buys an unfinished farmhouse in San Jose. And then she starts building and never stops.
[00:10:06] Speaker B: Packed up the truck and moved to.
[00:10:08] Speaker A: Beverly Hills, that is.
[00:10:11] Speaker B: And that, folks, is where the real fun begins.
[00:10:15] Speaker A: All right, so Sarah Winchester is now a ridiculously rich widow, convinced that vengeful spirits were after her. Naturally, she does what any rational person would do. Moves to California and starts a construction project that literally never ends.
[00:10:31] Speaker B: Because nothing says spiritual protection like an infinite home renovation.
[00:10:36] Speaker A: Exactly. In 1884, she buys an eight room farmhouse in San Jose, California, and immediately starts building. But here's the kicker. She never stopped. Like, she had workers on site 24, 7, 365 days a year for the next 38 years.
[00:10:53] Speaker B: I need to know, did she at least give these guys vacation days?
[00:10:58] Speaker A: Not really. She was paying them well, but it was a non stop operation. No blueprints, no master plan, just continuous construction. If she had changed her mind about a room, they just build it over, seal off the doors, or straight up demolish it and start over.
[00:11:14] Speaker B: That is the most unhinged way to decorate a house. Meanwhile, I stress over picking a paint color for three weeks.
[00:11:21] Speaker A: Right? But here's where it gets even weirder. Sarah wasn't just building a giant house. She was building a maze.
[00:11:29] Speaker B: Oh, you mean like those cool old mansions with hidden libraries and secret passageways?
[00:11:35] Speaker A: I mean, kind of. Except in Sarah's case, it was designed to confuse the ghosts.
[00:11:42] Speaker B: That's it. Both brilliant and completely insane.
[00:11:46] Speaker A: Oh, just wait. Here's some of the absolute batshit crazy stuff she built into this place. Doors that open into walls, staircases that lead straight into the ceiling, windows that overlook other rooms, a doorway on the second floor that literally opens to a two story drop. Cabinets and doors that when opened, lead to 30 different rooms.
[00:12:09] Speaker B: So basically, if you're a ghost trying to chase her, good luck. You're just running into walls like you're in a Scooby Doo episode.
[00:12:17] Speaker A: Exactly. But the whole idea was the spirits would get lost in the house and wouldn't be able to find her.
[00:12:23] Speaker B: But like, was she also getting lost? I feel there's no way she could keep track of all of this.
[00:12:30] Speaker A: Funny enough, there's a theory that she did get lost. Sometimes her staff had a hard time navigating the house because she kept sealing off hallways and creating dead ends. And she had a private seance room that only she knew how to exit.
[00:12:44] Speaker B: That's Honestly, some next level paranoia. I lose my keys in my own house. I can't imagine misplacing an entire wing.
[00:12:53] Speaker A: Now, if all that wasn't weird enough, let's talk about Sarah's obsession with the number 13.
[00:12:59] Speaker B: Oh, so she was super into Taylor Swift before. It was cool, basically.
[00:13:04] Speaker A: But she took it way beyond writing the number on her hand. Sarah designed the entire house around the number 13. 13 bathrooms, with the 13th one having 13 windows, 13 step staircases, even if she had to adjust the length of each step. Chandeliers that originally had 12 candles. She had them modify it to hold 13 instead. Windows with 13 panes, doors with 13 panels, and even the closets had 13 hooks. Her will signed 13 times.
[00:13:37] Speaker B: I'm sorry, but that's commitment. I barely remember my Hulu password. And she's out here redesigning chandeliers just to make sure they have 13 candles.
[00:13:48] Speaker A: Some believe she thought 13 had spiritual significance, maybe to ward off evil spirits. Others think she was deeply superstitious and losing it.
[00:13:58] Speaker B: Or maybe she just really liked prime numbers.
[00:14:02] Speaker A: Now, if you thought things were already weird, buckle up, because in 1906, the San Francisco earthquake hit and the house took serious damage.
[00:14:12] Speaker B: I mean, the. That's bound to happen when you're stacking rooms. Like a game of Jenga, right?
[00:14:18] Speaker A: The entire front wing of the mansion collapsed, and Sarah Winchester herself was trapped in the Daisy bedroom until her workers could free her.
[00:14:27] Speaker B: If I was stuck in a house full of ghost doors and trick staircases, I'd assume the spirits had finally had enough and were trying to kick me out.
[00:14:35] Speaker A: Well, that's exactly what Sarah thought. She took the earthquake as a warning from the spirits that she was spending too much time in the front of the house.
[00:14:44] Speaker B: Oh, so what does she do? Fix it? Reinforce it? Take a break?
[00:14:50] Speaker A: Nope. She has all her workers seal off the entire front section of the house. Just boards it up like it never existed.
[00:14:57] Speaker B: That's some peak avoidance behavior. Oh, this section got wrecked. Just pretend it's not there for real.
[00:15:04] Speaker A: And to this day, those rooms still remain closed off, frozen, exactly as they were after the earthquake.
[00:15:11] Speaker B: Now, let's talk about something a little darker, because with decades of non stop construction, there had to be some accidents, right?
[00:15:20] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. It's rumored that some workers died on the job, either from falls, exhaustion, or mysterious disappearances. But here's the creepy part. People still report seeing a ghostly handyman pushing a wheelbarrow full of bricks.
[00:15:36] Speaker B: So the guy was so dedicated, he just never clocked out?
[00:15:40] Speaker A: Apparently. Tour guides say that people consistently See him working, pushing a wheelbarrow around the house. Even weirder, when they check the security cameras, there's no one there.
[00:15:51] Speaker B: That's it. If I ever die, I demand a better ghost job than eternal construction worker.
[00:15:58] Speaker A: So, let's recap. Sarah Winchester, convinced she was being haunted, builds a labyrinth of nonsense, installs ghost traps, bases the whole thing on the number 13, and never stops building for nearly four decades.
[00:16:12] Speaker B: And when a massive earthquake shakes the place, she just locks off an entire section and keeps going.
[00:16:20] Speaker A: Coming up next, the seances, the hauntings, and the creepy shit that still happens at the Winchester Mystery House today. All right, so at this point, Sarah Winchester has built herself a ghost proof maze of madness. But we haven't gotten to the really spooky stuff yet.
[00:16:37] Speaker B: Wait, you're telling me that a woman who built a 160 room fun house for ghosts wasn't done? What's next? Adopting a pet banshee?
[00:16:47] Speaker A: Not quite. But she did host nightly seances to communicate with the spirits.
[00:16:53] Speaker B: Of course she did. I mean, what's the point of building a haunted house if you don't at least invite the ghosts over for a little chit chat?
[00:17:01] Speaker A: So deep inside the house, among the twisted hallways and the secret passageways, was a private seance room. And get this. Only Sarah knew how to get out of it.
[00:17:12] Speaker B: Excuse me. So what happens if someone else wanders in? Just. I guess I live here now.
[00:17:19] Speaker A: Basically, the room had one entrance, but three exits, two of which were fake doors leading into walls. The only real way out was through a secret passage, and only Sarah knew where it was.
[00:17:33] Speaker B: Okay, that is a fire hazard and a ghost hazard. I do not want to get trapped in a seance room with the undead and have no escape plan.
[00:17:44] Speaker A: Well, she didn't just use the room for fun. She used it to ask the spirits for building instructions. Legend says that every night at midnight, she'd go in, consult the ghosts, and get a new blueprint for what was next to build.
[00:17:58] Speaker B: You're telling me the house wasn't just her own chaotic fever dream. She was taking architectural advice from dead people.
[00:18:06] Speaker A: That's the story. After every sant, she'd emerge in the morning and give new, bizarre construction orders to her workers, claiming that she was just following the spirit's instructions.
[00:18:18] Speaker B: Right, because spirits are obviously qualified in structural engineering. Who needs a degree when you've got a poltergeist with a drafting table?
[00:18:27] Speaker A: And of course, the seance tied right into her obsession with the number 13. Some say she believed that 13 had protective powers. So she made sure that the seance room was in line with her 13 base designs.
[00:18:42] Speaker B: You know, for all that planning she did around confusing ghosts, she was weirdly committed to a schedule. Like, yes, I need to make sure spirits can't follow me. But also I. I have a strict 12am to 1.13am meeting with them every night.
[00:18:59] Speaker A: Listen, Tracy, ghosts are punctual. You think haunting just happens whenever. No, there's a schedule, you know.
[00:19:08] Speaker B: Okay, but for real, was this house actually haunted? Like, did she ever say she saw ghosts or was she just building this thing for fun?
[00:19:18] Speaker A: At this point, she never outright said she saw ghosts, but she acted like she was consistently being watched. She never slept in the same room two nights in a row and roamed the house at night holding a lantern.
[00:19:32] Speaker B: Oh, cool. So just full on haunted Victorian widow energy. Love that for her.
[00:19:38] Speaker A: And she may not have said it, but other people sure have. Visitors and staff have reported seeing a woman in black wandering the halls. And people believe Sarah's ghost is still in the house today.
[00:19:51] Speaker B: So people actually claim to see Sarah herself walking around?
[00:19:55] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Many tour guides and guests have reported seeing a small, frail woman in a black Victorian dress moving silently through the hallways. And get this. She always disappears right before their eyes.
[00:20:08] Speaker B: That's classic ghost behavior. Just once, I want a ghost to stick around long enough to spill some tea. Like, yeah, I built the weird house. And no, I don't regret it.
[00:20:20] Speaker A: Right. But Sarah's not the only spirit hanging around. The mansion is home to a whole cast of ghosts. And people have reported some truly bizarre experiences.
[00:20:30] Speaker B: They certainly have. Tourists and staff have seen tall, dark silhouettes moving through the corridors, vanishing as soon as they're approached. Security guards have reported footsteps following them late at night, only to turn around and find no one creepy.
[00:20:48] Speaker A: The third floor of the mansion is one of the most active paranormal hotspots. People hear phantom footsteps, whispers, and even muffled conversations coming from empty rooms. Multiple guests have claimed to hear a woman sobbing softly. Some believe it's Sarah, still grieving her husband and child.
[00:21:07] Speaker B: That's so sad and unsettling at the same time. But there's also accounts of a man in white overalls. Unlike the wheelbarrow ghost, this is a different figure seen standing at the top of the stairs or walking into walls. He's thought to be a former servant or laborer who worked for Sarah but never left.
[00:21:27] Speaker A: One of the strangest stories comes from the maintenance workers who claim they've seen ghostly hands reaching out from doors or walls. One worker reported feeling a cold hand press against his back, only to turn around and see nothing.
[00:21:42] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a hard pass for me. The moment I see floating hands, I'm grabbing my car keys, lighting a match, and filing for a change of address. All in the same breath.
[00:21:54] Speaker A: That would be an expensive fire. The Winchester house is a protected historical landmark. Now you'd have a whole new kind of curse on your hands.
[00:22:04] Speaker B: We'll be back after these messages.
[00:22:10] Speaker A: Hey, everyone, I'm Shelly. And I'm Eric. And we're the hosts of Gruesome and.
[00:22:14] Speaker B: Unnatural, a true crime podcast about murder, cold cases, missing people, and just unnatural.
[00:22:20] Speaker A: Join us every Monday where Shelly tells me gruesome stories that absolutely with me.
[00:22:25] Speaker B: Yeah, subscribe and listen on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:22:29] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:22:37] Speaker B: So instead of vengeful spirits, I'd be cursed by angry historians in the entire state of California? Honestly. Still terrifying.
[00:22:46] Speaker A: All right, so by now we know that Sarah Winchester built a massive maze of nonsense, consulted spirits like an unpaid architect, and according to legend, never really left. But what happened to the house after she died?
[00:23:01] Speaker B: Yeah, did she leave it to some secret society of Ghostbusters? Or like some distant cousin who just woke up one day and was like, oh, cool, I inherited a literal haunted mansion?
[00:23:14] Speaker A: Not exactly. When Sarah Winchester passed in 1922, she left most of her money to her niece, Marion Daisy Marriott, who had been her personal secretary and closest living relative.
[00:23:26] Speaker B: Oh, so the house went to her niece?
[00:23:29] Speaker A: Nope, that's the weird part. Sarah never actually willed the house to anyone.
[00:23:33] Speaker B: Wait, so she spends 38 years building a ghost proof fun house and then just forgets to put it in her will?
[00:23:41] Speaker A: Apparently, since she never named her heir for the mansion, it transferred to the Winchester Investment Company, which had handled her finances. But here's the thing. The house was considered basically worthless.
[00:23:55] Speaker B: I mean, fair. It's a giant, unfinished labyrinth with staircases to nowhere. Zillow's not going to give that a very good rating.
[00:24:04] Speaker A: Exactly. So after her death, Miriam wanted nothing to do with it and had it put up for auction. The house ended up selling for 135,000, which, considering Sarah was worth millions, is pretty wild.
[00:24:18] Speaker B: That's a steal, even for a haunted house. That's ridiculous.
[00:24:22] Speaker A: And just a few months later, in 1923, the new owners turned it into a tourist attraction, and it's been one ever since.
[00:24:31] Speaker B: Okay, so at this point, the house is a full on ghost museum. Let's cover who has been brave enough to investigate.
[00:24:39] Speaker A: Oh, it's been featured on basically every ghost hunting show you can think of.
[00:24:43] Speaker B: It certainly has. Ghost Adventures was one. Zack Baggins and his crew filmed an episode here and they claimed to experience intense EMF spikes, shadow figures, and even a ghost whispering, get out.
[00:24:58] Speaker A: Ghost Hunters was another one. The TAPS team came in with thermal cameras and recorded cold spots, unexplained footsteps, and even a voice answering their questions.
[00:25:10] Speaker B: Then there was Buzzfeed. Unsolved. Shane and Ryan explored the mansion, with Ryan fully believing it's haunted. While Shane naturally mocked the ghosts and somehow left alive.
[00:25:22] Speaker A: There has also been a plethora of psychics and mediums. Multiple psychics have claimed to communicate with Sarah Winchester herself, saying she's still watching over the house.
[00:25:32] Speaker B: All right, but if they actually caught anything good, like real undeniable proof, they.
[00:25:38] Speaker A: Have like a shadowy figure moving past a window in a part of the house that's completely sealed off.
[00:25:45] Speaker B: So it's either a ghost or the worst game of hide and seek ever.
[00:25:50] Speaker A: Right. Then we've got an EVP recording from Sarah's old bedroom. The voice sonnet says, leave me alone.
[00:25:58] Speaker B: I don't blame her. If she is really still hanging around, I can't imagine she's thrilled about the constant house tours. I know I wouldn't be.
[00:26:07] Speaker A: Yeah, probably not. Then there's the tour guide who heard her own name whispered back at her while she was all alone.
[00:26:14] Speaker B: That's a little unsettling. Wonder if it was just mimicry or something actually trying to get her attention.
[00:26:21] Speaker A: Either way, not exactly welcoming. And finally, there's a guest who took a picture of an empty staircase, only to find a translucent figure standing at the top when they looked at it later.
[00:26:32] Speaker B: That's a pretty common ghost move. Just standing at the top of the stairs, posing and saying cheese.
[00:26:39] Speaker A: Yeah, ghosts seem to love a good dramatic pose.
[00:26:43] Speaker B: See, this is why I don't take random photos in haunted places. That's how you end up seeing something that you didn't want to see.
[00:26:51] Speaker A: Right. And the creepiest part, Some of the best ghost sightings don't happen during ghost hunts. They happen to regular visitors and staff.
[00:26:59] Speaker B: One of the freakiest things happened to a tour group while inside one of the sealed off rooms, the door slammed shut by itself and wouldn't open for several minutes.
[00:27:11] Speaker A: Ghost snapped. Other guests have reported feeling cold hands brushing against their backs. One visitor said she felt a tug on her shirt, but when she turned around, no one was there.
[00:27:23] Speaker B: Yeah, hard pass. If a ghost so much as touches me, I'm jumping out a window. I don't even care if it's a.
[00:27:30] Speaker A: Two story drop Good thing Sarah built doors that go nowhere. So you can take the express route out.
[00:27:37] Speaker B: Ha. Convenient. I won't have to leave my signature Tracy sized hole in the wall. So who owns it now? Is it still in private hands?
[00:27:47] Speaker A: Yep. Over the years, the Winchester Mystery House has changed ownership multiple times, but it's still privately owned and operates as a historical landmark, museum and paranormal hotspot.
[00:27:59] Speaker B: I love that it went from a grieving widow builds a haunted house to ward off ghosts to come take a flashlight tour and get scared for fun.
[00:28:08] Speaker A: Right, and speaking of tours, they offer all kinds of experiences now. Historical daytime tours, flashlight tours, and even paranormal investigations where they turn off all the lights and let you wander around in the dark.
[00:28:22] Speaker B: Okay. Nope. I already walk into furniture during broad daylight, so I'm not going to try to navigate a ghost infested maze in the dark.
[00:28:31] Speaker A: I mean, fair, but for those who love ghost hunting, the Winchester House is considered one of the most haunted locations in America.
[00:28:39] Speaker B: All right, so what do we think? Was Sarah Winchester truly haunted? Was she just a misunderstood genius, or was she pulling off the greatest Victorian era troll of all time?
[00:28:52] Speaker A: I'm gonna go with all the above. The woman was rich, eccentric, and 100% committed to her bit. Whether it was ghosts or just her own paranoia, she built the wildest house in America. And for that, I respect her same.
[00:29:09] Speaker B: And whether you believe in the hauntings or not, one thing's for sure. The Winchester Mystery House is one of the weirdest, most fascinating places on the planet.
[00:29:18] Speaker A: All right, so before we wrap this up, we need to talk about something even deeper. Because what if Sarah Winchester wasn't just a grieving widow, a paranoid architect, a master prankster? What if she was actually a secret occultist?
[00:29:34] Speaker B: Ooh, I love a good secret society theory. Are we talking full on Dan Brown mystery novel stuff?
[00:29:41] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Some people believe that the Winchester Mystery House wasn't just built to confuse the ghost. It was actually designed to be a coded structure filled with hidden symbols, Masonic secrets, and esoteric knowledge.
[00:29:55] Speaker B: Okay, so let's break this down. What's the evidence that Sarah was actually part of a secret society?
[00:30:02] Speaker A: Well, some researchers claim that the house's design actually follows the patterns found in the Freemasonry and the Rosicrucians teachings. Two groups known for hiding sacred knowledge within architecture.
[00:30:15] Speaker B: So like, instead of just building a weird house, she was creating some kind of giant spiritual puzzle?
[00:30:21] Speaker A: Exactly. There are reports that some rooms align with sacred geometry, that some staircases and passageways follow Masonic principles, and that her stained glass windows contained Hidden esoteric symbols.
[00:30:35] Speaker B: Okay, hold up. Are you telling me this woman spent four decades designing a real life escape room for people who know secret handshakes?
[00:30:45] Speaker A: I mean, it would explain why the whole house feels like one giant maze. If she was a Rosicrucian or a Freemason, she might have designed it as a physical representation of spiritual enlightenment. Like, only those who truly understand the path can navigate the house.
[00:31:02] Speaker B: I love that we started this episode thinking that she was just a paranoid widow, and now we're like, oh, no, she's actually an architect of the arcane.
[00:31:11] Speaker A: And then there's the stained glass windows. Now, you might remember that Sarah had expensive Tiffany stained glass windows installed in the rooms that had zero sunlight. But some of these windows had messages hidden in them.
[00:31:25] Speaker B: What kind of messages? Like, help, I'm stuck in this house.
[00:31:30] Speaker A: That would be amazing. But no. Some of the windows featured quotes and symbols that tied back to the esoteric teachings about destiny, transformation, and knowledge.
[00:31:40] Speaker B: So instead of designing a home, she was basically writing a spiritual thesis in glass.
[00:31:47] Speaker A: Exactly. And one of the biggest clues is a window that has a quote from Shakespeare's Trollus and Cressida, a play that talks about fate. An illusion.
[00:31:56] Speaker B: Oh, that's suspicious. She's literally embedding messages about how reality isn't what it seems inside the house she's building.
[00:32:04] Speaker A: Right, so was she actually an occultist, or was she just a book nerd with too much money and a flair for the dramatic? We may never know.
[00:32:13] Speaker B: Okay, but what if she wasn't a secret society member or haunted? What if she was just really, really smart?
[00:32:21] Speaker A: That's actually one of the best theories, because some experts believe Sarah wasn't crazy at all. She was actually a structural engineering genius ahead of her time.
[00:32:31] Speaker B: Oh. Instead of confusing ghosts, she was designing earthquake resistant architecture before anybody else was even thinking about it.
[00:32:40] Speaker A: Exactly. One of her biggest achievements was designing a floating foundation which allowed the house to move with earthquakes instead of collapsing. And guess What? When the 1906 San Francisco earthquake hit, the Winchester house suffered way less damage than other buildings in the area.
[00:32:58] Speaker B: So while everyone else was like, lol, look at this crazy lady building staircases to nowhere. She was out there pioneering earthquake proof construction.
[00:33:08] Speaker A: Yep. She basically created an experimental earthquake resistant structure decades before engineers formally studied those techniques.
[00:33:17] Speaker B: I swear, women in history do one cool thing and society is like, nah, she's probably haunted.
[00:33:25] Speaker A: All right, I have another theory to dive into. What if Sarah wasn't the last victim of the curse? What if the Winchester curse kept going long after she Died.
[00:33:35] Speaker B: Ooh. I'm here for this theory. Tell me more.
[00:33:39] Speaker A: Well, some believe that Sarah's obsession with the spirits wasn't enough. Others believe that the curse never actually ended.
[00:33:47] Speaker B: Right, because if this was a horror movie, the ghosts wouldn't be like, well, she died. Let's pack it up. Nope. They'd want more blood.
[00:33:56] Speaker A: And here's where it gets really weird. Guess what happened to the Winchester Company.
[00:34:01] Speaker B: Let me guess. It went under.
[00:34:04] Speaker A: Bingo. In 2006, the Winchester Repeating Arms Company officially stopped making guns. Some say that this was the final piece of the curse. That the spirits weren't just after Sarah. They were after the whole bloodline and the company that made them.
[00:34:19] Speaker B: So the ghosts basically played the long game. They were like, all right, first we take down Sarah, then we wait another 84 years, and then we'll take down the whole damn company.
[00:34:31] Speaker A: Exactly. And whether or not you believe in the curse, the fact that one of the most famous gun manufacturers in history just stopped existing is pretty wild.
[00:34:40] Speaker B: You're telling me the company survived wars, economic crashes, and an entire Wild west era, but a bunch of angry ghosts finally took it down? Yeah, I'd love to hear the corporate PR statement on that one.
[00:34:54] Speaker A: Me too. All right, conundrum crew. We've officially spiraled down the endless hallways, fallen down the staircases to nowhere, and tried to make sense of the biggest architectural mystery in American history.
[00:35:07] Speaker B: And yet, we still don't have a solid answer. Was Sarah haunted? Was she a misunderstood genius? Or was she the most extra traumatic person to ever live?
[00:35:18] Speaker A: Honestly, I respect it. Whether she's being chased by ghosts or just vibing in her 160 room labyrinth, she committed to the bit for 38 years.
[00:35:27] Speaker B: That's longer than most people stay committed to a gym membership or a relationship or, let's be real, a Netflix show.
[00:35:36] Speaker A: And let's not forget that Sarah left behind a legacy that people still can't figure out. I mean, the house is still standing, still confusing visitors, and still creeping people out.
[00:35:46] Speaker B: And the most important thing we now know that if you ever get wildly rich, you should probably build a house so bizarre that people are still talking about it a hundred years later.
[00:35:57] Speaker A: Exactly. If I ever win the lottery, best believe I'm building a house with doors that lead to nowhere and hidden trap doors just to mess with the future generations.
[00:36:07] Speaker B: And if anybody asks why, you just have to whisper, the spirits told me to.
[00:36:14] Speaker A: And then just slowly turn, walk away, and disappear into the fog. That's how legends are made.
[00:36:21] Speaker B: Unless it's me. Because I'd probably trip over my own feet mid exit and ruin the whole vibe.
[00:36:29] Speaker A: But now we want to hear from you Conundrum Crew. What's your take? Was Sarah actually haunted? Was she hiding some deep esoteric knowledge? Or was she just rich and bored?
[00:36:40] Speaker B: And if you've ever visited the Winchester Mystery House, tell us your stories. Did you feel anything creepy? Did you get lost? Did you see Sarah Winchester wandering the halls?
[00:36:51] Speaker A: Make sure to hit us up on social media. You can find us on Instagram, Facebook or Twitter. Or you can send us an email with your own haunted house experiences. We love reading those.
[00:37:02] Speaker B: And if you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to rate, review and subscribe. Wherever you listen to podcasts, it helps us out way more than you know. Plus, we promise to keep bringing you more weird, mysterious and totally bonkers stories like this one.
[00:37:17] Speaker A: All right, that's a wrap on the Winchester Mystery House. But don't go too far. We've got another insane story coming up next episode. Tracy, any hints for what's next?
[00:37:27] Speaker B: Let's just say if you thought a haunted house with a ghostly architect was unsettling, just wait until we dive into the mind of Jeffrey Dahmer. From his chilling double life to the horrifying crimes that shook the world, we're peeling back the layers on one of the most infamous serial killers in history. Buckle up Conundrum Crew. This one is going to be dark.
[00:37:50] Speaker A: Oh, that's gonna be a good one. Make sure you're subscribed. You don't want to miss it.
[00:37:55] Speaker B: Until next time, stay weird, stay curious, and if a ghost tells you to build a 160 room mansion with staircases to nowhere, maybe get a second opinion first.
[00:38:06] Speaker A: Solid life advice later.
[00:38:09] Speaker B: Conundrum Crew Keep on creeping on. We love you Byee.
[00:38:15] Speaker A: Thanks for hanging out with us here at Total Conundrum. Please make sure to check out our website and blog@totalconundrum.com for news, upcoming events, merch bloopers and additional hysteria. You never know what will pop up, so be sure to follow along. If you want to show your support for Total Conundrum and gain access to all of our bonus content, please visit our Patreon page. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. The links are available in our Show Notes. If you have any questions, comments, recommendations or stories to share, please email us@contactotalconundrum.com episodes are available on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. If you like the show, please rate, review and subscribe on Apple Podcasts we appreciate the love. Keep on creeping on, Mother Cluckers.
