Episode 29 - The Haunted Palmer House

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Rake the twisted, admired the outlandish, and are enamored by the unusual. You're in the right place. True crime, the supernatural, the unexplained. Now you're speaking our language. If you agree, join us as we dive into the darker side. You know, because it's more fun over here. Welcome to total conundrum. [00:00:48] Speaker B: Warning, someone. [00:01:00] Speaker A: Greetings, conundrum crew. Jeremy and Tracy are back in the studio. And today we're venturing into the heart of the supernatural. Get ready for a spine chilling journey as Tracy takes us on a ghostly tour of the Haunted Palmer House Hotel in sock Center, Minnesota. [00:01:17] Speaker C: That's right, Jeremy. We're checking in where others might be. Checking out to the infamous Palmer House Hotel, a place with more than a century of history and an equal amount of haunted tales. But before we wander into the ghostly corridors, here's a quick reminder to hit that like and subscribe button on YouTube. And for our audio aficionados on Apple and Spotify. Share the spooky love with a five star rating. We appreciate the love from our spectral and non spectral listeners alike. [00:01:51] Speaker A: And speaking of love, let's give a shout out to our podcast pals. This week, we're swapping trailers with Zach solved mysteries where they tackle mysteries of unsolved cases and the macabre family, bringing a touch of darkness to your ears. Check them out. It's a podcast trailer swap fiesta. [00:02:11] Speaker C: Now back to the ghostly business, Palmer House Hotel. Jeremy, it's not just a hotel. It's a haunted time capsule. Every creek, every whisper. [00:02:24] Speaker A: Every what? [00:02:27] Speaker C: Every creek, every whisper. It's like checking into a paranormal marriott. [00:02:33] Speaker A: Well, Tracy, I hope they have a friendly ghost concierge. Tracy, any ghostly encounters you're excited to share? [00:02:41] Speaker C: Oh, absolutely, Jeremy. The Palmer house has more ghostly residents than a spectral suburb. We've got apparitions, mysterious voices, and maybe even a ghostly former employee or two. [00:02:55] Speaker A: Nice. Pack your ghost hunting gear, conundrum crew. We're about to unlock the doors to the Palmer House Hotel and navigate the corridors of the Supernatural. Tracy, is there a room with our name on it? [00:03:10] Speaker C: You bet, Jeremy. How about room six? Six? Just kidding. But we might need to ask for some extra towels from the ghostly housekeeping. [00:03:21] Speaker A: Tracy, don't forget we have a special guest, Jenny from TCP paranormal. She worked at the Palmer house for a few years and has investigated the Palmer house and multiple other locations. [00:03:32] Speaker C: That's right. And she's also a fellow minnesotan. Jeremy, are you ready for this spooky episode? [00:03:39] Speaker A: Always. Do you have your invisibility blanket and tinfoil hat close by just in case. [00:03:45] Speaker C: Of course, I don't leave the house without them. [00:03:50] Speaker A: We'll be back after these messages. [00:03:52] Speaker B: Welcome to Zach solved mysteries, the most important podcast you'll ever hear in your life. I know enough about most things to be inaccurate about everything. We're not just a podcast, we're an experience. [00:04:10] Speaker A: This story, dude. [00:04:13] Speaker B: Prepare to have your life transformed, because not listening to us could be a grave mistake. You must wake up every day and. [00:04:21] Speaker C: Say, today's the day someone's going to murder me. [00:04:23] Speaker B: We're not just tackling the classic mysteries of the past. We're rewriting history itself. Robert Stack, I think, had dirt on people. Forget everything you thought you knew about unsolved mysteries or any sort of mystery. Maybe there were giants. Who knows? Who cares? Subscribe now to Zach. Solve mysteries anywhere you get your podcasts get solved. Mystery solved, my bitches. [00:04:51] Speaker C: Hey, everyone. We have Jenny with us today. And I came across Jenny by sending an email to. Is it Twin Cities paranormal? Is that the. [00:05:06] Speaker B: Yep. [00:05:07] Speaker C: Yeah. So I came across a YouTube video of Twin Cities paranormal and I reached out to them on instagram and via email and they put me in contact with Jenny here. So the episode that we're going to be focusing on today is a haunted hotel in sock center, Minnesota, and it's called the Palmer House Hotel. And Jeremy and I have talked about that on a few different episodes. So we invited Jenny to come on and talk with us and she was more than happy to. We are very excited to have you. [00:05:42] Speaker B: Thank you. Thanks for having me. Definitely. Yeah, I've been with Twin Cities paranormal for about eleven years and then I worked at the Palmer house, probably started eight or nine years ago. [00:05:54] Speaker C: Very cool. So you're going to have definitely some insider information for us. [00:05:58] Speaker B: I got a few stories for you. [00:06:00] Speaker C: I'm glad. Well, are you out there on any socials that you'd like to shout out or. Shout out anything for TC paranormal or Twin Cities paranormal? [00:06:10] Speaker B: So, tcps, we have Facebook and Instagram. We're admittedly not the best with social media. We're trying to keep up with that. It's hard, I know. So we definitely do Facebook more often than also. So you can just find us with TCPSMN. Or if you just type in Twin Cities paranormal society, we should come up and then our website that has some evidence and some of our older investigations. Kind of a bio about all of us and everything like that. That's tcpsmn.org. [00:06:47] Speaker C: Awesome. So everybody go check them out. Definitely if you're into the spook factor. With our podcast, we do both true crime and paranormal and kind of the under. [00:06:57] Speaker B: Oh, my two passions. Yes, mine, too. [00:07:01] Speaker C: I didn't want to pick one or the other. I wanted to kind of combine them together. [00:07:05] Speaker B: I kind of feel like they go hand in hand sometimes. [00:07:08] Speaker C: They really do. So we're going to start out by asking you some questions. [00:07:13] Speaker B: Yeah, do it up. [00:07:14] Speaker C: All right. So the first question is, how did you first become interested in paranormal investigations and what inspired you to pursue this field? [00:07:25] Speaker B: Okay, well, I will try and make this as short a story as possible. When I was younger, I grew up a Navy child, so we moved a lot. And I think I was around eight or nine, and I was living in DC, and it wasn't really a super old house. It was probably built in the 1970s, but I just started having crazy experiences there. My dad used to be in a band when he was younger. We had an organ in the room next to me, and I would wake up and that would be playing all the time. Just a bunch of paranormal things that literally happened to me every single day. Nobody else in my family really experienced anything, or at least they wouldn't admit that they were experienced anything. And being nine years old, you're terrified of it, because it's natural to be scared of what you don't understand. So I grew up absolutely terrified of the paranormal. Unsolved mysteries. Come on. I'd run out of the room. Anything that had to do with anything scary, I'm out. And then I think I was around 18 or so. I think it was 2004, and a good friend of mine and I were traveling, and we just had the travel channel on, and commercials for ghost hunters were coming on, and we kind of looked at each other and she's like, oh, we need to watch that. And of course, I'm like, no, we do not need to watch that. You have a good time. Let me know when you're done. And she somehow convinced me, and I was just kind of fascinated because ghost hunters was kind of the first paranormal show that came out with Jason Haas and Grant Molson. And their approach was just so different. Instead of trying to scare you, it was, let's try and figure this out. Let's do the research behind this location. Let's talk to the homeowners. Let's figure this out and let them know it's not as scary as they might think that it is, and let's try and find some natural explanations. So it really was just a mind shift in my head from, oh, it doesn't have to be scary. There can be explanations behind this. So it actually encouraged me to write the Fairfax County Historical Society in Burke, Virginia, where I used to live, where I had my experiences when I was younger. And I still knew the address, still could tell them stories clear as day. Right? And they were stoked about it. And back in 2004, you didn't really talk about this stuff. So I didn't really think that I was going to get a response from them. But they were so excited about it. They did a ton of research on the land just because, like I said, the house was built in 1970, so it wasn't really necessarily the house that was having the issues. [00:10:37] Speaker C: Right. [00:10:37] Speaker B: And we just found out so much stuff about the land being right outside of DC. Robert E. Lee had ties to the land. There were battles on the land. There used to be, like, a little catholic school in the 18 hundreds that sat on that property. Oh, wow. And I'm just flipping through, reading a bunch of stuff. They literally sent me a whole manila envelope of stuff. And I get to this one page that has a picture, and I literally dropped the whole packet because I used to see that man standing outside my room. [00:11:12] Speaker C: Oh, my goodness. [00:11:14] Speaker B: And that is when it completely. Okay, I'm not crazy. This actually happened. I can't explain it. It was something I was so scared of my entire life, just completely turn into curiosity, like, oh, my God, this actually happened. Now I'm more interested in it. So it literally was ghost hunters that kind of encouraged me to get past my fear and look at the whole entire field differently. And ever since then, I just wanted to help people that were in the same situation I was in when I was nine years old. [00:11:52] Speaker C: That's awesome. And I can relate totally to the being so scared of it. I also grew up in a home that I believe was haunted. I tried to tell myself that I was just a kid, but I had friends and other people that were in that house that had experiences as well. And so I have always been terrified of the supernatural. Terrified. [00:12:17] Speaker B: Here we are. Right, right. [00:12:19] Speaker C: And I love telling the stories. I love Halloween. We do a haunted house every year, but I will not go to a haunted house, a fake one, like a state fair. [00:12:34] Speaker B: Oh, my God. Thank you for saying that, because people don't understand that about me. They're like, you won't go to the ones that people jump out at you. No, I will assault them. [00:12:43] Speaker C: I will go to the haunted mazes. I don't like being scared in. Yes. [00:12:50] Speaker B: Yes. I do not like being startled I say that all the time. Every Halloween. Let's go to this. Nope. I'll take you to a real haunted house. But we're not going there. [00:13:01] Speaker C: Exactly. Well, and even when we started doing this podcast, Jeremy's like, we should do some extra content, go and do our own investigations, do our own little things. So we did a little couple of randomautica adventures, which didn't end up coming into anything, and we set spooky intentions and didn't find anything. And then the one night, he's like, well, let's go to the graveyard. And I was like, hell, no. And he's like, no, come on, let's go. And he finally convinced me, and we were sitting there, and we just had an app on his tablet. And it was so funny because the bugs were so bad. We were sitting in the truck. [00:13:42] Speaker A: Is that why we were sitting in the truck? [00:13:45] Speaker C: Yeah, because of the bugs. Wink, wink. [00:13:49] Speaker B: I thought it was for a different reason. [00:13:53] Speaker C: But we were talking about. We were joking around, because every time I came home from work, Harry Potter was playing on tv. And Jeremy's like, it's the dogs. The dogs like Harry Potter. [00:14:06] Speaker B: It's not me. [00:14:08] Speaker C: And all of a sudden, we had. I don't remember what app it was, but it said wand right after we were talking about Harry Potter and stuff, and then it told us to leave. And I'm like, all right. [00:14:22] Speaker B: It told us to leave. [00:14:23] Speaker C: It's time to go. And then it said, join you. And I was like, you are not welcome to follow us home. You are not. And I'm like, okay, we need. [00:14:32] Speaker B: Good for you. Yeah, that's exactly what you should have done. [00:14:35] Speaker C: So that was my first time really having any. It was just an. [00:14:43] Speaker B: But when there's correlation. [00:14:45] Speaker C: Correlation. And then Jeremy decided to look up the most haunted graveyards in Minnesota, and we went to stop it. [00:14:54] Speaker A: Greenwood Cemetery. [00:14:54] Speaker C: Greenwood Cemetery in Duluth. The poor farm cemetery. [00:15:00] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. [00:15:01] Speaker C: My stipulation is I would not be there after dark. [00:15:04] Speaker B: Okay, well, that's fair. [00:15:07] Speaker C: But we went there, and the first time we went, we just had our phones, and we had a spirit talker app. And it was so funny, because I'm trying to think of. I said something about getting cold or something, and I don't remember what it replied, but then Jeremy was like. We were sitting on. Have you been to the cemetery? [00:15:32] Speaker B: I have. Oh. [00:15:33] Speaker C: So in the center of it, there's kind of, like a placard, and then there's, like, a raised brick wall area. So we were sitting, like, on the brick wall and when you're in the cemetery, it doesn't feel like you're truly in a cemetery because there is literally only, like, two or three flat gravestones. The rest are just the little cement circle with the stamp, the numbers and stuff. So if you walked out, oh, my gosh, you wouldn't know until you looked down at the ground. And a lot of the little concrete markers are covered up by the grass. And there's like, what was there, 4700 and some people buried there. Yeah. [00:16:13] Speaker B: That's so sad. [00:16:14] Speaker C: It is. So anyway, the first time we went was just. We went with our phones and just that spirit talker app. And I think we had. Did we have our spirit box at that point, or the radio thing? I can't remember what it's called now. [00:16:31] Speaker B: Yes, the spirit box. [00:16:32] Speaker C: Spirit box. Yeah. We might have had that as well. But anyway, I said something, and then it replied to what I said. And then we were sitting on this wall, and Jeremy stood up, and I was like, are you getting sore? And all of a sudden, the spirit talker said, yeah, that's interesting. [00:16:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:52] Speaker C: So it was kind of responding here and there in correlation to what we were saying. Didn't have anything bad. And we left right at dusk. And then we decided we got a few more pieces of equipment. We got a rem pod. We picked up some cat balls. [00:17:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:09] Speaker C: What else did we have? Or what else do we have? I can't remember the apps. We picked up a couple of cameras. We wanted the cameras that had night vision. So the first thing that happened is there's one gravestone that has somebody had put something in the ground where they could hang things off of it. So that's like, the only thing that's standing up above the ground. And I was over by that gravesite. Jeremy was. Oh, we bought a drone. So he was trying to use the drone to get aerial b roll footage and stuff. And we couldn't fly the drone because it was in a no fly zone, because there's, like, a government restricted. There's a building right by the cemetery that you can't fly there. So anyway, I was trying to get my camera working, and I was recording, but the mic wasn't working. And so I looked over at Jeremy, and I called over, I said, I'm having an issue with the mic because we have external mics on it. And all of a sudden, from the woods, and mind you, this graveyard, you have to walk back into it, and it's all surrounded by woods. All of a sudden, from inside the woods, I hear somebody call back Mike. And I was like, oh. And he's like, no. [00:18:23] Speaker B: You heard it audibly. Yes. [00:18:27] Speaker C: There must be somebody, because we did find a couple of squatter tents out in the distance in the woods and stuff. He's like, I don't know. There's the road construction, and somebody might have just been yelling at a person. And I'm like, I know, but it was coincidental. [00:18:43] Speaker B: You're right. [00:18:43] Speaker C: And then we were sitting there, I had the REM pod set up in the grass, and we had cat balls all around it. And then I had a couple of flashlights and stuff like that. We had no activity forever on the REM pod. And then when we sat down and we were just, like, videotaping the area where the REm pod and the cat balls and stuff were, all of a sudden we started getting action on the REM pod, and Jeremy's like, no, I think it's the grass. So he moved it to make sure, and then there was nothing. And then I started asking questions, and then it would hit the REM pod, and I'm like, okay. And it would go for an extended period of time, like, okay, you can stop touching it now. Then it would stop, and then it would nice go. It was going back and forth with us. And then at one point, I'm like, we said something about the cat balls, and then one of the cat balls went off. So it was kind of cool. We actually had some pretty good interaction and stuff, but. [00:19:47] Speaker B: Awesome. [00:19:48] Speaker C: I'm like, I'm still not staying here past dark. [00:19:52] Speaker B: Know your limits. That's good. Let's move our way up. You don't need to go full in all the way effort. [00:20:01] Speaker C: Right? Well, I have to say though, too, it is a lot more calming when you're just thinking that you're just communicating and you're not worried about having. I mean, you're going to get jump scares and investigations. I know that, right? [00:20:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:14] Speaker C: But it was a little bit more calming. I was just so petrified of it. And now I'm like, okay, I think I can do this. I think I can do this again. [00:20:22] Speaker B: Right? And that's exactly how I did it, too. I would find little places like a cemetery or something for our team. We never would really be able to do a cemetery just because we are very scientific based, right. So we have to eliminate all contamination when we're doing an investigation. And when you're outside, that's really hard to do. It is. So it's harder for us to do, like, cemeteries and stuff. Like that. But of course, when I first started getting into this, and I'm sure when my partners on the team first started getting into it, we would do the exact same thing. And then you just kind of seek out places and meet people and get your opportunities expanded a little bit. But it's good because you don't want to jump full in. You definitely want to be aware of your limits. [00:21:19] Speaker C: Definitely. Well, Jeremy, what's your question for Jenny? [00:21:23] Speaker A: My question is, what is your background, and do you have any specific training or certification in the paranormal investigating? [00:21:31] Speaker B: Interesting. Good question. So, pretty much paranormal investigating is not a proven know. We. We work very hard. I think I had mentioned ghost hunters, while Jason Hawes runs an organization called taps, and that is what ghost hunters was based off of. And we are now Twin Cities paranormal. And then our friends up in Ottertail County, Midwest paranormal files. We are the two taps teams for. Yep, there's taps teams in every state. We're actually international as well. One of my good friends lives in Germany and is on the taps team out there. So it's a network, basically, where if somebody sees the show and somebody calls in and says, oh, I'm having these experiences, then they can kind of vet them to who can help. But that's kind of getting off for when I started getting into the investigating. Like you said, tracy, we're trying to find little places to go and stuff. So that's kind of how I started into it. And then I ended up managing the ghost tours down at St. Anthony, Maine, in Minneapolis, which is the oldest part of Minneapolis. And I don't even know. That had to have been 15 years ago, a long time ago. And that just kind of opened up. My network gave me the experiences because that place is crazy haunted. And I experienced the good, the bad, the ugly down there. But you come across these shows and everything's demon, demon, demon. That's not how it is. In 20 years of doing this, I've had to call in a reverend once because I was like, this is way more than I know how to deal with. But just like people, you're going to have happy people, you're going to have crabby people. And you come across crabby energy all the time. That doesn't make it demonic. That doesn't make it negative, that just makes it crabby. So you just have to learn how to deal with that energy and how to sense that energy a little bit. And I don't think that there's really any training that you can get for that. I think it's more experience. And there's people on my team that have been on for as long as I have that. They're like, I have the sensitivity of a paperclip. I literally, even after all these years, can pick up nothing. I'll go through the documentation, but I don't feel when something changes in the room. And I think that's something that you kind of learn as you go as well. So it's just a matter of learning through people that you respect and that you meet in the field. There's so much literature and so many opinions about the paranormal out there. I could never say, do your research and read this author, because that's how you need to be doing paranormal investigating. This is not a proven. So, you know, there's nothing that's saying what's right or wrong. So you just kind of have to put yourself in different situations and see what works for you. Network. That's huge in this field. I think most of my Facebook friends, I don't know if I've met most of them because they're all just paranormal people that we just network through and learn and see how they do things. And maybe we could try that in our next investigation. There's no right or wrong way of doing that. [00:25:31] Speaker C: It's nice to have people to bounce ideas off of, or if you encounter something you're not sure how to handle, or you got new equipment and all of that stuff. I mean, the equipment is always changing, too. [00:25:43] Speaker B: Yeah. I feel like it's such a competitive field sometimes, and that's absolutely no reason for it. None of us are doing the right or wrong thing. [00:25:54] Speaker C: Right. [00:25:56] Speaker B: I just think that we could all learn from each other. As far as outside of the paranormal, all of my education is in criminal justice and psychology. [00:26:09] Speaker C: That's why you like the true crime? [00:26:11] Speaker B: Yes. My master's is forensic psychology. [00:26:16] Speaker C: Very cool. [00:26:17] Speaker B: Would have loved to work with the criminal mind. But I think that psychology of it all and that psychology interest of mine and education makes me kind of try and look at it in a different way as well. Like the psychology behind the energy and what I'm feeling and how can I get this thing to communicate with me if it's there, right? So just trying to put in my education with the psychology. As weird as that sounds. I know it sounds really weird, but I feel a lot of this in this field is just learning your own limits, learning your own psychology kind of behind it, and then learning what you can do to make those respectful communications. [00:27:07] Speaker C: Definitely. Well, let's go on to the next question. Can you share one or two of the most memorable or intriguing paranormal cases you've worked on? [00:27:17] Speaker B: Oh, God, there's just so many. Always said I should have written a book. [00:27:25] Speaker C: You still can. [00:27:27] Speaker B: I know, right? The hard thing with this is with tcps, we're very respectful when it comes to confidentiality. We actually have a waiver for every single case that we go on or any person that calls us in. And they have to basically say what they are comfortable with us revealing about the case. There's a lot of places that I can never say anything about, any I can't talk about at all to anybody because they want to remain confidential. And as a taps team and as a team that respects people, that's obviously going to be our biggest priority is maintaining that confidentiality when people request that. So just because I don't want to waste all the time thinking about which ones I can and cannot talk about, I will talk about some of our fun little things for Twin Cities paranormal. We specialize in residential and businesses. We definitely are in this because we want to help people, but we're also fascinated with the paranormal. So we like to have fun sometimes and we try and do group trips. I will say for sure Waverly Hills in Louisville, Kentucky. [00:28:51] Speaker C: I've heard a lot about that. [00:28:53] Speaker B: Oh, my God. I typically tend to be kind of skeptical. So when we had originally agreed to book it, I was know this is supposed to be the Disneyland of the paranormal. Everybody raves about this place. We're going to go. Not a thing's going to happen and I'm going to be disappointed. [00:29:16] Speaker C: Right. [00:29:17] Speaker B: That's how I look at life sometimes. So we had only booked one night the very first time that we went. And I want to say, you get it from like 08:00 p.m. To 04:00 a.m. I want to say maybe it was nine because 6 hours sounds so probably nine to three, nine to four. And we had brought a couple of our friends from other teams along just because it was expensive. So we wanted to make sure that we had enough people to kind of bring the cost down for us. So I want to say we maybe had like twelve people that first time, actually, grant Wilson from ghost hunters, he's a good friend of ours. And he ended up joining us a couple of times at Waverly as well. [00:29:59] Speaker C: Very cool. [00:30:00] Speaker B: I know. So the first time we were there, you want to coordinate everything going back to the contamination. We need to know where everybody is at all times. So we would go out and do about an hour session in our groups, and our groups are usually three or four people. And then we'd go back to the base camp and just kind of decide, okay, next session, this is where everybody's going to be or where each team is going. And so my team, it was our former members, Jenny J. And Blaine, and then somebody that's still on our team, Neil and me. And we were on the third floor, and all night, we were hearing really loud footsteps, and it is a concrete building, and this building is humongous, like you should not be hearing. So, you know, we don't think too much of it. And we were literally walking down the hallway, and we started hearing the footsteps, so we kind of stopped to just kind of listen, and at the end of the hallway, it looked like somebody walked around the corner with a flashlight, but it was the brightest damn flashlight you've ever seen in your life. Completely lit up the entire end of the hallway. And so we're calling out. We're like, somebody's on the floor, right? We don't want to scare you if you're just coming, just hanging out. So we're yelling out, like, oh, we're down here, or whatever. And it looks like the flashlight is still kind of coming towards us. And you know how when you're watching somebody coming at you with a flashlight, you can kind of see the bounce in their walk or whatever? It was nothing like that. It was literally lit up the entire hallway. And Blaine went to go turn on his flashlight, because we had been in the dark, and as soon as he turned on his flashlight, that flashlight or the light at the end of the hallway just completely dissipated, and the footsteps stop. And I'm not an athletic person whatsoever, but I'm like, what the hell was that? And so I go off running towards light because I'm like, if some jerk is trying to trick us or whatever, which nobody on my team would, but that was a person. So I go down running towards where the light was, because there is a stairwell right around that corner, and absolutely nobody there. And to this day. And that had to have been six or seven years ago. We've been back a couple of years, but not since. COVID that place just is insane. It is insanity. The things that happen there. I don't think I've ever been there where something did not happen. Wow. And like I said, we're a skeptical team, so we try very hard to debunk things and to find natural explanations, and to this day, I'm like, this had to have been one of you guys, because this was, like, way too crazy to have actually happened. And do you think we would have had a camera pointing at it? Of course not. Because why would anything ever. Why would it ever. Oh, my God. It's just ridiculous. We have it on audio, but that's about as much of it as you can hear. But, yeah, we heard those footsteps quite a while. And I guess I forgot when I ran down to look, see if somebody was leaving down the stairs or from the hallway, the team was still back in the hallway where we had been standing, and I guess the footsteps walked right past them when I went. Um, so we do have all that on audio. I don't know if we have it anywhere posted, but, yeah, waverly is quite a. [00:33:56] Speaker C: See, I think that's where we need to bring Jeremy, because he has never had something that he debunks everything. [00:34:03] Speaker A: That place is on my list. [00:34:06] Speaker C: I won't go there by myself with you, though. We're going to need a team. [00:34:13] Speaker B: Get yourself a group. I can't remember. I want to say it's around $1,000 for up to ten people, and then it's like $100 per any additional. So get yourself ten people. It's not really that hard. It's a huge building. It's five floors. You can spread out if you want. You can stay together if you want. They do two hour guided tours as well. [00:34:40] Speaker C: Right. [00:34:41] Speaker B: So that might be a way to start as well. [00:34:43] Speaker C: Yeah, that'll probably be me inching in because he's all, let's go. And I'm like, yeah, she'll just sit. [00:34:51] Speaker A: In the truck and send me in. [00:34:54] Speaker C: Tell me how it goes. [00:34:56] Speaker B: Don't do that. Because everybody that wants to be there will get really mad at you because it really is kind of like the Disneyland of the paranormal. And everybody that's in the paranormal, that's like, we've got to get to way, really, so you can't waste it. [00:35:11] Speaker C: No, I won't. I've got to build up to it, though. [00:35:15] Speaker B: Yeah, that's probably not a bad idea because. Yeah, even the things that happen there even. Yeah, I think I screamed numerous times at Waverly, and I don't usually react that way. [00:35:30] Speaker C: So with you being in Minnesota and part of taps and stuff, have you guys worked with Dakota and Chelsea Layton at all? [00:35:37] Speaker B: I know them, actually, before I even got into this field, before I joined a team my own, I was with Dakota. I actually live in Hastings now. And Annie Wilder is an author who also lives in Hastings. Actually, I can see her house from my couch, which is kind of creepy. A little bit creepy to say that, but. Hi, Annie. No, she doesn't live there anymore, but she had a lot of experiences in her house. And years ago she would have like little tea parties and have people coming in, do investigations. And I actually worked with Dakota at that property at Annie's house. I never met Chelsea. And God, I mean, Dakota had to. They're so young. [00:36:28] Speaker C: They are young. [00:36:30] Speaker B: Oh, my God. He had to have been like a teenager still at that point. That was when he was still doing kind of a ghost adventures. Yes, the parodies. That's what the word I was looking for. He started doing parodies of ghost adventures and then they saw it and thought it was really funny and they're like, hey, why don't you come and do some work with us? So it was still like when he was doing parodies and just doing YouTube videos and stuff. [00:36:59] Speaker C: That's really cool. [00:37:00] Speaker B: Yeah. So I saw them at an event in Duluth a couple years ago, but we don't really talk to them or really get know them or anything. They're busy kids. [00:37:11] Speaker C: They are busy. Well, the reason I asked know, they went to school in Lakeville and they're from Minnesota. And my son actually went to school with all of them. [00:37:21] Speaker B: Oh, really? [00:37:21] Speaker C: Yeah. So he knows all of them from going to school in Lakeville with and. [00:37:28] Speaker B: I, and I grew up in Burnsville, so right next to him. [00:37:31] Speaker C: So I did reach out to them on see, just to see, but they still haven't read my message. I thought it would be. [00:37:43] Speaker B: They are very personable people, if you ever said to. [00:37:47] Speaker C: They're just super friendly. They were always so nice in high school. [00:37:51] Speaker B: They really are. And there's absolutely no difference between their personalities now that they are famous before when they weren't. So they're very humble, super cool kids. I can't help you there. Sorry. [00:38:12] Speaker C: I was just curious if you had encountered them. We also have another person we're having on at some point this month, Nash hoover from chasing legends. He is more of a cryptid hunter. And he actually went to school with my son, too, in Northfield. And he used to play at our house when he was little. [00:38:32] Speaker B: Oh, my God, that's hilarious. [00:38:33] Speaker C: Yeah. So we're going to have Nash come on. And I'm excited because they're kind of trying to reboot their show. Right? [00:38:39] Speaker B: Nice. [00:38:40] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:38:42] Speaker B: Years ago they used to have a paracon in Manoman, Minnesota, and it was kind of yearly thing and then the reservation kind of kiboshed it, so it hasn't been a thing and probably will not be a thing again, unfortunately. But I remember that's where I met Nash, and it was before he was doing any of the things that he got into. And it's so awesome because it's just know, you see all these people so many years later and they've made a name for themselves. [00:39:13] Speaker C: It is fun. [00:39:14] Speaker B: Yeah. I love it. [00:39:16] Speaker C: Yeah. And especially with me knowing him, since he was a little tyke, too. [00:39:19] Speaker B: I know. [00:39:19] Speaker C: I went to high school with his mom. [00:39:22] Speaker B: Oh, my God. That's hilarious. I love it. [00:39:25] Speaker C: All right, Jeremy, what's the next question? [00:39:28] Speaker A: So the next question is, what are the primary tools and equipment you use during paranormal investigations? And have you ever talked to Elvis? [00:39:39] Speaker B: And have I ever talked to Elvis? Elvis? Unfortunately. Unfortunately, no. I know. I wish. [00:39:50] Speaker A: That would be cool. [00:39:51] Speaker C: That would be cool. [00:39:52] Speaker B: That would be amazing. Anybody famous would be kind of cool. But, yeah, they don't really care to hang out with us. I don't think so. I've always said that really, the most important piece of equipment is a digital voice recorder. There's so many pieces of equipment these days, and yes, we do have all of them because we're all ridiculous and just have to buy everything that's new and upcoming. But really, it all really just goes back to if I am sitting there doing an EVP session, and I know that I eliminated all the contamination. And, I mean, if you watch the shows, like, even if you're doing a session and water starts dripping from a pipe or something, you tag it just so that when you're listening back that's growling can sound awfully demonic when you're listening back to that on a recorder. Oh, my God, it can be terrifying sometimes. So you always want to make sure that you're tagging everything like that. So when you know that you're in a pretty controlled environment and you get a full sentence for somebody's voice that was not in the room with you, that's really hard to debunk. And my best evidence, I think, are some of the evps that I've caught in over the years. So I always say, digital voice recorder and a flashlight, you're good to go. But of course, we like flashy lights and other things. So I think I started out literally with a night vision camera, and I don't even think it was a camcorder. It was just a regular photo camera and then a k two meter and a digital voice recorder. And that's all I had for a couple of years. And then you just keep adding to it. And our team has a ridiculous amount of things. I drive a Hyundai elantra. I cannot carry our equipment to investigations in my car. Our cases literally do not fit in my car. [00:42:02] Speaker C: Well. And I have one thing to put out there for that k two meter. I was doing some investigating on that. If you go to our Instagram, if you're interested in getting a k two meter, go to our Instagram and look because I have images of the fake one and the real one because if you're going out to Amazon, you can get them cheaper, but they are knockoffs and they're not the true k 2 meters. You're going to be spending around eighty dollars to one hundred dollars to get a true k two meter. And it's absolutely the image that I have. Somebody did a YouTube video on what the difference is and how the stickers look different and how the insides look different. So if you're going to buy a k two meter, make sure you check out that comparison because you want to make sure you're not getting something that's not going to give you genuine readings. [00:42:51] Speaker B: I love that you did that. That's awesome. And the reason that those are cool to have is because they basically just pick up the electromagnetic field and anything electric is going to have an EMF to it. So it's not foolproof. You definitely have to know how to use it. And if you're an investigation and you're walking down the hallway and holding the k two and it starts going off, well, you want to kind of scan the walls, scan the floor, hold it above your head towards the ceiling, make sure that it's not actual electrics. There's been residential cases that we've been called in on. And we go in there and the EMF in the home is so intensely high. That's just not safe. It's not safe for people to be around. It can really make you paranoid. It can make you physically ill. So that's kind of why we use k two s. It's not only a debunking tool. So there's been plenty of times we've gone into homes and just been like, I'm sorry you don't have goats, but you need an electrician. You're not safe with sleeping with all of this EMF radiating out of your walls. [00:44:03] Speaker A: When you guys do go in to investigate, do you guys actually shut down the main power? So that way that we do not. [00:44:12] Speaker B: Shut down the main power, but we do a scan. So when you first go into the home, you obviously want to know where the electrical boxes are and everything. And we'll go through every single room and any room that is kind of giving us higher readings. Then we'll go into that specific room and try and track it down. Like, is this coming from wires or is this completely random? So it's constant debunking, because even if you're sitting there and it hadn't been going off, and all of a sudden you start getting the readings on it, you still want to pick it up and go kind of scan that floor, scan anything that's near it. Make sure. Cell phones, if you're getting a call on your cell phone. So, yes, always turn your phone on airplane mode if you're doing an investigation, because it does kick on a lot of the equipment. So we don't necessarily shut down the power, but we do a scan before we actually start to investigate, just so that we know where the higher readings are. And then we try and figure out why we're getting higher readings in those locations. [00:45:28] Speaker C: That's really good to know. [00:45:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:45:30] Speaker C: Well, I think we're going to skip the next question because you kind of just covered that in the last question. Go ahead and ask. Next one, Jeremy. [00:45:39] Speaker A: Which one is that? [00:45:40] Speaker C: Number six. [00:45:43] Speaker A: How do you approach cases with a healthy dose of skepticism? And what methods do you use to debunk potential paranormal phenomena? [00:45:52] Speaker C: So we kind of covered it a little bit in the last question, too. [00:45:56] Speaker B: So, theoretically, again, nothing in this field is proven, but theoretically, all that spirits are our energy. And even Albert Einstein said, you don't die. Your energy just changes form. So when we're on investigation, that is what we're trying to communicate with. We are trying to communicate with that energy. And I think that sometimes a way that you can try and help people make it a little bit less scary, too, is these are just people without bodies for the most part. I mean, yeah, that might be a little weird to say, but it's not any scarier than interacting with anybody else. I work in law enforcement right now. Let me tell you, real people are a lot scarier. [00:46:45] Speaker C: I was just going to say than go. [00:46:50] Speaker B: I've had a couple of my officers contact me and say, oh, my God, this is going on. I'm just like, why are you even scared? You deal with so much more dramatic stuff. That's a lot scarier. And they're like, no. Oh, God. It's going to take me a lot of time to change a cop's mind that it's not scary. But I totally went off topic here. What was the question again. [00:47:15] Speaker A: I'm sorry, we don't know. [00:47:18] Speaker B: Squirrel. Yeah, right. [00:47:20] Speaker C: That's me. Totally. How do you approach it? With a healthy dose of skepticism. And what methods do you potentially use to debunk, which you kind of already did mention with the EMF? [00:47:34] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, you just kind of got to know your equipment, because if you don't know your equipment, you're going to get readings that you're going to think are readings. But like I said, with the k two, you might just have it sitting in the middle of the floor, not next to anything electric. And just because you've already done a scan and haven't gotten something to show up in that room doesn't mean that it's not going to kick on at some other point. You know what I mean? [00:48:00] Speaker C: Right. [00:48:01] Speaker B: So you've got to know your equipment, you've got to know what it's testing, and then you've got to know what it can be picking up. So, like I said, it's just that constant. Not that you want to be moving around all the time on an investigation, but when you do start to get a reading, don't just take it at face value. You want to have other pieces of equipment set up to see if that you can get that correlation. And if you're not getting a correlation. Okay, let's go pick up that piece of equipment. Let's walk around slowly. Let's see if we can kind of track down the source. And if you can't track something down, that's when you start to look. Know more paranormal explanations. [00:48:45] Speaker A: Nice. [00:48:46] Speaker C: Very cool. Well, we'll kind of get into some of the questions on the Palmer house now. [00:48:52] Speaker B: Let's do it. [00:48:53] Speaker C: Have you captured any particularly compelling electronic voice phenomena or the EVP recordings at the Palmer house? And what do they reveal about the spirits or the entities present there? [00:49:06] Speaker B: I like it. So, before I started working there, we went down as a team, and TCPS was one of the very first teams to actually investigate the Palmer house. It was before I was on the team. We were formed in 2006, and I joined, I want to say, in 2014. So I don't necessarily know how many times they had been there before I joined the team, but once I joined, we had gone up and Kelly had pretty much just given us free rein just because she knows us. So we just kind of paid for our rooms and just did our own investigating. And I was sitting, I want to say, in the third floor hallway in between room 17 and 22, which is the most kind of notoriously. Yeah, if you ask, what rooms are the most haunted? Not that we lock them in any specific room, but those are kind of the notorious ones that people talk about. And you can't hear it audibly. So I didn't pick it up until I actually was doing my review. But you can clear as day, hear two children, and it sounds like two little boys, possibly, and one of them kind of giggles, and then the other one starts to sing, and it was like. And then that was kind of the whole EVP. It was probably maybe 30 seconds long. [00:50:37] Speaker C: And there is known, supposedly, a little boy that bounces the ball down the hallways there. [00:50:43] Speaker B: Yeah, that's our friend Carlisle. That was the son of the Palmers. [00:50:48] Speaker C: I have in my story, which we'll be getting into in a little bit here, but I have in there that there was a little boy that died there, but I didn't know how or why. What were the circumstances of him passing there? [00:51:03] Speaker B: Yeah, he didn't pass there, but the palmers lived there. So when they built the hotel in 1901, Ralph and Christina Palmer, like the mom and the dad, and then they had Carlisle, and Hazel was their daughter, and they all lived at the hotel. And I don't know Carlisle's full story. I do know that he grew into an adult. I believe he went into military. And one of my old coworkers used to see a man in military form in the kitchen, and they thought it possibly could have been him. We've had his grandchildren come in and look at pictures and stuff. I don't know how he died, though. But he didn't die in the hotel. I know that. Okay, I'll say this. There are no documented deaths. [00:51:53] Speaker C: Interesting. [00:51:54] Speaker B: Does not mean that nobody has. [00:51:56] Speaker C: Right. [00:51:57] Speaker B: Just means it's not documented. [00:52:00] Speaker C: And that's like we talked about when we first got on the phone, is. It's hard when you're investigating or, like, researching paranormal cases to know what is true and what is not because people will spin stories. [00:52:14] Speaker B: Absolutely makes it creepier if somebody died there. Exactly. [00:52:20] Speaker C: Let's go to the next one. How do the reported paranormal activities impact the experiences of the guests staying at the Palmer house, and how does the hotel management handle these occurrences? [00:52:34] Speaker B: Well, I think most people that are going to be going to the Palmer. [00:52:37] Speaker C: House know what they're in for out. [00:52:40] Speaker B: In the middle of nowhere. Sock center. Yeah. A lot of our guests are coming there for the paranormal. And I've always said that it's a great place to go because Kelly works so hard to keep it positive energy. I cannot tell you how many times I've been there, and then I get a knock at my door at 04:00 in the morning, and they're like, energy is off. We need to go, Sage. Oh, no. So we go down 05:00 in the morning, whatever, to the basement and try and figure out, because when you have so many people coming there with the paranormal, how many people are bringing their own stuff with them, right. [00:53:25] Speaker C: And how many people are doing their own things or trying to or antagonizing. [00:53:35] Speaker B: And if we find out that that's happening, that's not going to be happening. It is extremely important. And Kelly, this is what I really respect about her, and I've met so many owners of haunted locations, and sadly, this is kind of something that really makes her different, is she's not all about the money. She doesn't care if you're bringing her money or not. She wants the place respected. She does not call herself the owner of the hotel. She calls it the caretaker. She's the caretaker of the hotel, making sure that the resident spirits are respected and that things aren't being called in. That should not be know. Obviously, there's only so much you can do. But I've seen her chuck Ouija boards out the front door and kick people out because it's listed pretty clearly on our website, like, no Ouija boards are allowed. She does not agree with that. And if people try and sneak them in and she finds out, well, you're kicked mean. She takes it very seriously, and that might seem kind of harsh, but as a paranormal investigator and as somebody who's been in that place, when the energy has gotten off, it's very respectful. I will always tell her that's one of the things I respect most about her is she really does take care of the spirits. And by making sure that she's taking care of the spirits and making sure that the energy stays positive there, that's what brings the guests back, definitely. Or at least the guests you want to come back to come back. Obviously, we get a lot of different people, but she's very clear about her expectations and making sure that everything's respectful. [00:55:35] Speaker C: And that's a good thing to I. Years ago, I worked at a bar in Dundas, and they've got all of the things. It's an old building. It's been taken over multiple times. They had lots of activity with, like, the James gang and stuff like that there. And when I worked there, I had a little girl ghost follow me home. So in one of our episodes, I interviewed the owner of the bar who was a bartender at the time when I worked there, and she now lives above the bar. And so it was for a Halloween episode, and I wanted to kind of get her perspective now that she's the owner of the bar and she lives there, and she's like, you know, I've given them. There's a room in the front of their apartment that they don't go into. That's where they have experiences, whatever. They leave that room for the ghosts, and there's a room in the basement that they don't open. They leave it, and everything stays pretty calm. And she's been approached by multiple different teams to come and investigate. And she's like, and I tell them no, because we don't have anything bad going on, so I don't want to stir it up. And I'm like, that's a great way to work it. You have an understanding with the spirits that are there. Why stir anything up if nothing's happening? [00:56:58] Speaker B: Absolutely. And the spirits that we have at the Palmer house, and there are a lot. It's their home. You can't just have constant people coming into your house and not start to feel uncomfortable at some point, if that makes any sense. But it's so important. Just because it is such a hot paranormal spot, it is so important for us to keep that energy positive there. [00:57:25] Speaker C: Definitely. [00:57:26] Speaker B: It's not good for the living, either. If you have all this negative stuff coming in all the time with people that may not even know that they're bringing it in, it can really mess with the personalities of the living, too. And there's been times that it's like, oh, God, I need to get out of this place for a minute. I just need to ground myself. Yeah, I just need to ground myself. Or you can tell who's been working way too many hours and hasn't been outside of the hotel enough because their personality kind of changes. And not that it's necessarily negative, but that's a nice thing about the Palmer house, is there's so many people that are so connected to that building. There's been times that I've been at home in the cities where I'm like, okay. I wake up in the middle of night, and I'm like, something's off at the Palmer house. And the next morning, I'll text Kelly or somebody else, and we'll find out a guest was doing this or that. It is weird because there's so many people that have such a strong connection to the Palmer house, and I do consider myself one of those people. [00:58:38] Speaker C: That's awesome. [00:58:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:58:39] Speaker A: All right, so one last question, and then we'll get into the story. [00:58:43] Speaker B: All right. [00:58:44] Speaker A: What is your favorite haunted location in Minnesota, other than the Palmer house that you've investigated? [00:58:54] Speaker B: I would say. I'll go ahead and say St. Anthony, Maine, down in Minneapolis. It's been years since I've been down there, and it's been years since I've worked down there, so I don't really know what the energy is like down there right now, but it is by far one of the most haunted places I've ever been. And a lot of the places that we had access to when I was doing the tours were rented out to poor people that have to be in their offices all day in those haunted places. But we were just about a block away from the soap factory. Which soap factory? Had some pretty nasty energy. [00:59:47] Speaker C: Go ahead. I don't know if they still do, but they did a pretty wicked haunted house in that soap factory, too. [00:59:53] Speaker B: Yes. They called us in one year to assist with an investigation, and it was during Halloween, so all of their props were set up. Oh, my gosh. That's kind of a touchy situation for me. Everybody has different opinions, but I just feel like that's very disrespectful when you have clear evidence that you have spirits at a location. Like, I'm sorry, don't be making gory and horrific scenes. I don't know. I kind of have strong opinions about it, but that's totally just me because everybody else loved that haunted house. I obviously never went except for when we actually did the event, but it wasn't during the haunted house. But yeah, it's kind of gross energy. If you go on our web page, the tcpsemmon.org, we have probably one of our most disturbing evps from the soap factory. And fortunately, I didn't have that kind of gross energy that you felt at the soap factory a block away at St. Anthony, Maine. But there were definitely times that I was like, yeah, it's time to go. Things would come in, but it was very active down, you know, if you're interested in stuff like that. The Aster house, I believe, is it. The Astro house and Prakna are kind of on that same block where I used to run the tours and their restaurants. If they're still in business, we would go through there and they had activities. So go get something to eat. Yeah. [01:01:31] Speaker C: Very cool. All right, well, we're going to dive into the story here and feel free as I go through because I'm assuming a lot of the information that I have, you'll have more information on, so feel free to stop me or correct anything. Like I said, I went to multiple sites, kind of cross referenced, but again, it is a paranormal, so it's hard. [01:01:58] Speaker B: Yeah, you're going to get 20 different stories for one incident. Exactly. [01:02:03] Speaker C: So like I said, feel free to interrupt me at any time, or if you have anything to add or whatever, don't hesitate. [01:02:10] Speaker B: All right, sounds good. [01:02:12] Speaker C: All right. So the Palmer House hotel, nestled in the heart of the charming town of Sox Center, Minnesota, is a historic establishment that has earned a chilling reputation for being haunted. For over a century, guests and staff members alike have shared spine tingling tales of encounters with the supernatural within the hotel's walls. From ghostly apparitions to unexplained phenomena, the Palmer House has become a destination for paranormal enthusiasts seeking a taste of the otherworldly. Join us as we explore the ghostly legends that surround this iconic landmark. The Palmer House Hotel has a rich history that dates back to its construction in 1901. Originally known as the Sock Center House, it was built in 1864. The sock center house was a saloon, hotel, and a brothel that fell victim to a mysterious fire on June 26, 1900. The fire was not investigated, for the town was just happy that it was gone, for it was a blemish on society. That was one thing I found that a lot of people. [01:03:21] Speaker B: That is correct. [01:03:23] Speaker C: That's good to know. And the other thing I came across, but I never really got any proof on it, was that there was potentially people that were in the basement of it when it was on fire, but there was nothing that pointed any proof to that there was anybody that fell victim in the fire. [01:03:43] Speaker B: Right. All of the newspapers that we've ever seen or any of the stuff from that time when it happened, honestly, there was one newspaper that said everybody that should have gotten out, got out. Okay, so there is no documentation on if there actually were any deaths or. [01:04:04] Speaker C: Not there's any squatters or anything. [01:04:07] Speaker B: Right. But it was kind of deemed as a place of ill repute. So, yes, that is kind of the viewpoint of it is it was just kind of an eyesore and brought in attention that they did not want for the city. So nobody was really sad when it burned down. [01:04:27] Speaker C: Okay, so we'll go ahead and continue. The Palmer house was built in its place by Ralph and Christine Palmer. Ralph was quoted as saying, go big or go home. When he was building on the rubble of the former sock center home, he built a hotel with 40 rooms, complete with washrooms and electricity. And I got a few different discrepancies on the actual amount of rooms I saw between 38 and 40. So I'm not 100% sure. [01:04:55] Speaker B: I've always heard in the. Then I believe one bathroom on each floor. [01:05:00] Speaker C: Okay. And it was not typical for a hotel of that time to have electricity. And it was the first building in sock center to actually have electricity. [01:05:11] Speaker B: I want to say it was one of the first in Minnesota. [01:05:13] Speaker C: Oh, really? So even bigger than just the town? Nice. [01:05:17] Speaker B: Yes, because a lot of people would travel out there for that reason, because it had the working plumbing and electricity, which most people in the state did not. [01:05:29] Speaker C: You know, they were really going big. [01:05:31] Speaker B: They were ahead of their time. Yeah, definitely. [01:05:34] Speaker C: So the Palmers lived there with their children, Hazel and Carlisle. And Christina's mother and her brother, George Brander, also worked at the hotel. This endeared the hotel to many. And because this was an era before apartment buildings, some people lived there full time. A few raised families. Many had hard lives. And, yes, some even died here, which you said that there are no documented deaths there. [01:06:01] Speaker B: Correct. [01:06:02] Speaker C: Okay. So, again, that's something that, when you're dealing with the paranormal. [01:06:07] Speaker B: Right. People think if somebody dies there, that makes it haunted. Right. [01:06:13] Speaker C: Basically, the place has a very big history. The Palmer house was a popular gathering place for locals and travelers alike. Nobel Prize winning author Harry Sinclair Lewis worked at the Palmer house when he was young. Is that correct? [01:06:29] Speaker B: That is correct. [01:06:30] Speaker C: Very good. [01:06:31] Speaker B: And he was fired numerous times. [01:06:35] Speaker C: I love that. I love it. The hotel was used as a model for the fictional. And I'm going to butcher this mini mosh house. [01:06:50] Speaker B: Yes. [01:06:50] Speaker C: Is that right? [01:06:51] Speaker B: Yes. [01:06:51] Speaker C: Okay. [01:06:52] Speaker B: For Main Street, Claire Lewis's, which appeared. [01:06:56] Speaker C: In his novel main street in 1920. Over the years, the hotel has changed hands several times, but one thing that has remained constant, the eerie tales of the haunting that continue to be associated with the Palmer house. The hotel endured an ambitious makeover in 1993, exposing its natural beauty from top to bottom. With respect to Richard Palmer's idea, however, some of the comforts to which society has been accustomed to have been added. The hotel originally housed. I have in here 38 to 40 small rooms with guests sharing a bathroom. Common necessity room type bathroom. So that must be the one. You said like, one on each hallway. [01:07:42] Speaker B: Yes, I believe one on each floor is right. One or two on each floor? [01:07:45] Speaker C: Okay. Yes, that's what I meant. On each floor. Not hallway. Wrong word. [01:07:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:07:52] Speaker C: There are now 19 rooms, each with its own bathroom facility, some complete with jacuzzis to pamper you a little bit. [01:08:00] Speaker A: That's my room. [01:08:01] Speaker C: Yeah, that's what he wants. [01:08:04] Speaker B: Get 1212 is the best jacuzzi room, and it has a great view. Yeah. [01:08:11] Speaker A: What's the most haunted room? I want that one, too. [01:08:14] Speaker B: 17 and 20, which 117 is supposed to be Lucy's room. That's kind of the notoriously most active room. And then the room across the hall is 22, and that's what we call Raymond's room. And then my personal favorite room is eleven, which is on the second floor. And that is what we call Annie's room. However, I have been in every single square inch of that hotel, and there has not been a square inch that something has not happened. [01:08:51] Speaker C: Wow. [01:08:52] Speaker B: Yeah. We do not lock them in a room. So when people call and say, oh, put me in the most haunted room, we're like, okay, so you can stay in the cafe, you can stay in the lobby, you can stay on the staircase. Every single inch of that place has activity. And honestly, one of the rooms that I've had the least activity in is 17, which a lot of people are going to kill me for saying that. But, yeah, every single room is very active there. But twelve is amazing just because it does have the jacuzzi and it has a great view. [01:09:30] Speaker C: Well, that's the room we're going to book, then. [01:09:32] Speaker B: All right, do it up. [01:09:35] Speaker C: So one of the most enduring and well known spirits said to inhabit the Palmer house is a little boy, a playful and mischievous ghost. According to local legends, he tragically passed away within the hotel many years ago. So there again is the discrepancy. [01:09:53] Speaker B: Yep, no documentation. And Carlisle did grow into old age, we do know that. [01:09:59] Speaker C: And they say ghosts can go back to when and where they want. So the time period and where they were most happy or wherever they have their unfinished business. So that makes sense. [01:10:11] Speaker B: And I agree that definitely. I believe that. [01:10:14] Speaker C: So visitors and staff members have reported numerous encounters with him, most reporting hearing him bounce a ball in the hallway. Some have even claimed to see the ghostly waif playing with his prize toy. Some have reported hearing the sound of childish laughter echoing through the halls. Others have witnessed objects moving on their own accord, attributing these phenomena to the playful spirit of the young boy. There's been claims of seeing a spectral figure resembling a young boy swiftly traversing the rooms and the corridors of the Palmer house. So there's some truth to it and some not. And you got some evps of a little boy or little. Two little boys. [01:10:59] Speaker B: Yes. It definitely sounded like two separate little boys. Sounded like little boys. Obviously, it's harder to tell because they sounded very young. But we get children evps all the time. And we actually have a children's room in the Palmer house on the third floor with just toys and little chalkboard and stuff. So that's another place that people like to try and investigate and communicate. I don't think that he's the only child there, but I definitely believe he can come back as a child. [01:11:34] Speaker C: Oh, definitely. So here is another partial, I think, discrepancy as well. So when I was doing the research, it said that rooms eleven and 17 are considered the most active in the building. [01:11:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:11:48] Speaker C: Okay. [01:11:49] Speaker B: Yeah. 17 would be considered Lucy's room. That's on the third floor. And then eleven is my favorite room. That's Annie's room. And we do actually have a picture of what appears to be an apparition standing at the window in eleven, when somebody had checked out of the hotel and they had been staying and they went out to the parking. We're just taking pictures of the back of the building. You definitely see somebody standing in the window and they had just checked out. So there shouldn't have been anybody in the room. Yeah, they should have that out the palmer. If you guys go ask to see a picture. [01:12:29] Speaker C: Cool. [01:12:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:12:30] Speaker C: So then it goes on to say the guests and investigators noted that room eleven sometimes feels cooler than the other rooms. And some have also experienced the feeling of a cat leaping onto the bed and stepping over the covers when there was nothing there. [01:12:47] Speaker B: Yes. I used to serve breakfast when I would go down for a weekend or whatever, and I can recall at least two times that I've had people waiting for me to open the cafe doors at like, 07:00 in the morning were when we opened back then. And that needed to check out because they have huge cat allergies, and their allergies were going crazy. And they're like, there's a cat in the building. And we're like, no, there's not a living one anyway. Right. But, I mean, you definitely do get. I can't tell you how many people. I've been on a tour, doing a tour in the basement where people have been like, okay, I need to get out because there has to be a cat around here. It's crazy how many people just all of a sudden are like, I'm allergic to cats, and I'm all of a sudden having allergic reaction. Yeah, I know. I wish they would come hang out with me. I love cats. [01:13:45] Speaker C: Yeah. Right. So room 17 is allegedly home to a ghostly prostitute named Lucy. Lucy is believed to have lived during the 1880s, when the hotel was transformed. [01:14:00] Speaker A: Is that the one that bagels. [01:14:02] Speaker C: Bagel bites. [01:14:03] Speaker A: Trying to make out with. [01:14:05] Speaker B: Yeah, not trying to make endearment. [01:14:11] Speaker C: There was a podcast that I used to listen to bagel bites. They call them bagel bites, and it has stuck in my head. So anytime we talk about Zach Baggins now, we always say bagel bites. [01:14:23] Speaker B: Oh, my God. I love it. That's hilarious. I have other words for him. [01:14:30] Speaker C: Well, and I do get into his investigation of the Palmer house in here, too. I do briefly cover his investigation, but, yeah, they're kind of a little out there. [01:14:44] Speaker B: I love a little bit. I'm going to be honest, I've actually never watched the Palmer House episode just because I didn't want to be pissed off. So I just was like, I don't want them to spin the Palmer house in the wrong light. And from what I understand, they kind of did. But, yes, they were in room 17. [01:15:07] Speaker C: Yes. [01:15:08] Speaker B: And I believe. Didn't they mess with the furniture? [01:15:11] Speaker C: They did, and I kept that part out because I didn't want to with them antagonizing. Basically, in the episode, he's like, I know she doesn't like things to be moved or whatever, and they took one of the chairs and put it up on the bed, and they're like, well, how do you like that? [01:15:27] Speaker B: Rude. [01:15:27] Speaker C: And I purposely left that out because I don't like people antagonizing ghosts. [01:15:33] Speaker B: Well, thank you for saying that. We don't either. And that's just my opinion of Zach Kelly thinks very highly, and they were very respectful when they were there. So I just want to say. [01:15:46] Speaker C: And it was funny, because when I watched the episode, they portrayed her as an employee. It wasn't until I started researching on my own that I found out that she was actually the. And we know this is not correct now, because you had said that nobody had died in the Palmer house, but her story tells of a murder at the hands of her pimp, Raymond, who is said to haunt room 22. [01:16:12] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right across the hall from 17. [01:16:15] Speaker C: And then due to her tragic end, Lucy does not like men and will physically attack them. So I'm not sure how much we know that the death isn't correct. I don't know if the link to Lucy and Raymond is. And. But as for the men factor, I know Zach brought that up that they didn't. They were getting any activity because of them all being. [01:16:41] Speaker B: So I'm just going to start with saying this is not documented. So nothing about Lucy, nothing about Raymond nothing about know the big ghosts of the Palmer house, I guess, if you will. It's not documented. It is what people have picked up on over the years. Okay, so while I don't want to say there's no proof, because I worked there long enough, and I was there long enough to know that there is something going on there. Whether it is the names and the stories that were given them, I don't know. But yes, there is definitely a female in room 17. And I don't want to get off topic too much here, but one really funny story. My team was investigating one time, and it was January or February, so it was really slow. We had the entire hotel. I was staying in room 22, and a former member of ours, his name is Yako. He is kind of a short, chubby greek man. He was staying in 17, and in the middle of the night, I woke up and there was an extreme. I mean, literally felt like it was burning my nose hairs, smell of perfume in my room, 22. And I literally had to put my blanket over my face because it was so strong and eventually dissipated and went back to bed, whatever. The next morning, I was talking about it at breakfast, and Yakos just kind of looks at me and he's like, so what time was that? And I don't remember. Let's just say one or two. So I said, oh, probably woke up around one or two. And he said, yeah, that's the time that I got into the jacuzzi. And he was in 17. And so my theory is that Lucy was like, oh, hell no. And didn't want to see that because not many people would, and was like, I'll just come over and hang out with Jenny in 22. [01:18:46] Speaker C: Oh, my gosh, that's hilarious. [01:18:52] Speaker B: It's like, little things like that that. It's like, I have so many of those stories that really do actually kind of correlate the stories that have been told that, okay, lucy might not be such a fan of little greek men, but she'll come hang out with me then over in 22. I do want to say that there's nothing in any files that we've ever found that name Lucy and Annie and know we don't have proof of that that happened. Okay. But that is the personality that we have given them, and they definitely live up to well. [01:19:32] Speaker C: So I have on Raymond that he reacts negatively towards female guests, and he especially dislikes the hotel owner, Kelly. And it says, this may stem from his belief that women should know their place and not take on the responsibility of operating a business like the Palmer. [01:19:51] Speaker B: House, which that can be understandable. A lot of people that I know, especially females, did not like room 22. You can kind of really feel a masculine energy in there. I never felt threatened, but I do know that one of our housekeepers, she's like, I don't even want to clean that room. I just feel so threatened when I go in there. Yeah. So I'd say that there's kind of some truth to that, too. [01:20:18] Speaker C: And so then I did find an interview from Kelly that said that she has felt Raymond's presence at times and was physically assaulted by him. It says on multiple occasions. She refuses to appease him, though, and continues her role as the owner. [01:20:38] Speaker B: Sounds like Kelly. [01:20:41] Speaker C: Sounds like, from what I got from some of the interviews I watched, she's a tough gal. [01:20:46] Speaker B: Yeah, she is. She was definitely put into that place when they bought the hotel. She didn't know anything about the hauntings. And I think even when people started talking about it, I think she was still kind of like, okay, but there could not be a better person owning that hotel. And, like she says, she is the caretaker. She would never call herself the owner of the hotel. She is the caretaker. So they chose her. I definitely believe that. [01:21:17] Speaker C: Definitely. So then it goes on to say, while Lucy's presence is undoubtedly one of the hotel's most famous hauntings, the Palmer house has a rich history that extends beyond her tragic tale. During the prohibition era, the establishment operated as a clandestine speakeasy. Is that true? [01:21:37] Speaker B: Again, we don't have proof. [01:21:38] Speaker C: Okay. [01:21:40] Speaker B: Just a lot of things that we have come across in the basement, a lot of documentation that we've gotten from investigations. I don't know if you've ever watched the dead files episode on the Palmer house. [01:21:56] Speaker C: Not the one on the Palmer house. I'll have to check that out. [01:21:59] Speaker B: Yep. So they did one on the Palmer house, and they actually found out information that we never knew about that want to say a policeman or a security officer was walking around, kind of doing his rounds one evening, and this was during prohibition, I don't remember the year. And he ended up getting shot. He stumbled to about a block away across main street where the PD used to be, went into the lobby, and collapsed and died on the floor. And we think. And again, speculation. But what we believe is that he probably walked in and saw something he wasn't supposed to be seeing, because it is very likely, even though we don't have that documentation, that some shady things were going on in that basement, especially during prohibition. [01:22:54] Speaker C: Yeah, definitely. [01:22:55] Speaker B: So, again, we don't have anything saying that that's true, but I think everybody that works there and everybody that's been there probably agrees that I think we all have that same theory, that there was probably some gangster activity and some shady happenings. I mean, there's tunnels underneath flock center, especially downtown. And we believe that the alcohol was probably brought in through those tunnels and they needed a dark, cold basement to store it in. Again, don't have proof, but if you. [01:23:35] Speaker A: Look kind of like the tunnels of St. Paul, then, yeah, very cool. [01:23:40] Speaker B: Yeah, I know it is kind of fun, but, yeah, we don't have that documentation, but we definitely have our speculation. [01:23:47] Speaker C: Speculations. So visitors, according to my research, had reported hearing ghostly sounds of glasses clinking, muffled voices engaged in lively conversations, and echoes of laughter resonating from the empty rooms or even the hotel's basement at times. [01:24:06] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah. [01:24:07] Speaker C: Okay. [01:24:08] Speaker B: Probably at least ten times have seen, like, wine glasses or beer mugs fly across the table and smashing the wall and shatter. It's not abnormal for that to happen. [01:24:21] Speaker C: That's crazy. And then I have. Full bodied apparitions have been seen in the bar area. Many believe that a man hung himself there during the 1950s. So, again, another speculation of a dead somebody that died there. [01:24:38] Speaker B: Right. I've heard that, too. I don't know if that's true. The bar is definitely a very active location, but I don't know if he's related to it or not. Again, no documentation. [01:24:52] Speaker C: Okay. And then it's multiple paranormal investigators have seen a humanoid shaped gray smoke in the room. Al Tingley, who was the owner of the hotel during the 70s, published a book discussing the Palmer house titled the Corner of Main street, which also mentions the strange entity. So I'm not sure how much truth there is to that. [01:25:16] Speaker B: Him and his partner owned the hotel before. I think it was the person before. There was one lady before Kelly, and then they owned it before that lady. And I don't know if they lived there, but I do remember hearing that they wrote a book. I unfortunately have not read it yet, and I actually kind of forgot about it until you just brought it up. So thank you. [01:25:40] Speaker A: We're here to help. [01:25:43] Speaker C: I tried to go deep. [01:25:44] Speaker B: You need to find me that. Yeah. Because I've always wanted to read it. And I think. I want to say Kelly has old copies of it in the, um. And she was going to, like, re. Oh, God. Now maybe I'm making things up, but I think over Covid. I want to say over Covid. We did so much cleaning there and just purging. Just because we were closed. And there's not a lot of other times you can deep clean a hotel and restaurant. [01:26:10] Speaker A: We'll be back after these messages. [01:26:12] Speaker B: Hey, everyone. It's me, Stephanie, the hostess of the Macabre family podcast. Join me and my whole macabre family every week as we tell you all the tales of spooky, kooky, creepy, freaky, hairy. You name it, we got it. At the Macabre family podcast. Join us every week on all listening platforms. Stay spooky. Right, but I want to say she found a box of old books of his, and I don't remember why I did not take one at that time. [01:26:45] Speaker C: Maybe she needed to go through them first or something. [01:26:48] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't remember. But I do want to read his book because I think he pointed on a couple of things that she's talked about over the. [01:26:57] Speaker C: Very cool. Yeah. So those who have stayed at or visited the Palmer house hotel have experienced a wide array of unexplained spectacles that defy rational explanation. Sudden drops in temperature have been reported, with guests feeling an icy chill pass through the air. Even in the absence of open windows or draughty corridors, objects have been known to move on their own, only to reappear in unexpected locations. [01:27:25] Speaker B: Lights have been known to flicker all the time. All the time. [01:27:30] Speaker C: There's an unsettling sensation of being watched has sent shivers down many people's spines. And some have even claimed to encounter full body apparitions, catching fleeting glimpses of ghostly figures drifting through the hallways or standing silently in empty rooms. [01:27:48] Speaker A: Spooky. [01:27:52] Speaker B: You're making me want to get back there. I haven't been. [01:27:56] Speaker A: I think that would freak me out more if I woke up to somebody just standing there watching, staring at me. [01:28:03] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:28:04] Speaker B: I would always try and tell them, don't watch me sleep. And if you're going to, just don't let me know that you're watching me sleep, because that's gross. [01:28:13] Speaker C: But go into invisibility mode. [01:28:18] Speaker B: Right. But, yeah, the Palmer house never disappoints, and you do get a little bit of everything there. Like I said, it's not uncommon for a wine glass to just all of a sudden just shoot across the table and smash against the wall. It's not abnormal at all for people to see full body apparitions. Yeah, audibly. You can audibly hear things sometimes, which is kind of abnormal. I think it's hard for them to get that energy to do it strong enough to where we can actually hear them with our own ears, you know? [01:29:00] Speaker C: What I mean, do you think the majority of the haunting is residual or do you think it's. Now I'm losing my words. [01:29:09] Speaker B: Intelligent. [01:29:10] Speaker C: Yes. [01:29:12] Speaker B: I definitely think that what is there is intelligent because it definitely does. I don't want to say mess with you. I always say they're jokesters. Like, if you go in there and you're like, okay, don't do this, because that's what's going to scare me. Well, that's what they're going to do. Because they're like children, right? They're defiant little children and they always are just kind of jokesters. And I've always said that about the Palmer house spirits is they seem to be just kind of having a good old time doing whatever they're doing, and they just think it's think, you know, that they're getting all this attention. Well, they've got to have some fun, right. It's never threatening. Like I said earlier, we try very hard to make sure that the energy is positive there and that the spirits that are there are welcome there and not something that somebody has brought in that has more of a negative tone to it. [01:30:15] Speaker C: Note to self, when we book our weekend at the Palmer house, Jenny's got to go there and make the energy good before we go. [01:30:26] Speaker B: I would love to. Yeah. I got a new job about two years ago, and I don't even know if I've been at all since. This job just takes all of my time. But, yeah, I haven't been there in way too long. I need to get back there for sure. [01:30:42] Speaker C: I will definitely let you know when we book our weekend. So that would be really fun to have somebody that does this professionally. [01:30:50] Speaker B: I would love to. [01:30:51] Speaker C: Yes. Definitely show you around. [01:30:55] Speaker B: Yes. Play with some equipment. [01:30:57] Speaker C: Definitely play with all the fun equipment. [01:31:01] Speaker B: Right. [01:31:02] Speaker C: There's another entity that I have. Some articles mentioned it, some didn't. The lady in white. I know every location has a lady in white. [01:31:11] Speaker B: I was just going to say there's always got to be a lady in white. I would say that's probably going to be Annie. Because the picture that we have of that apparition in room eleven, when that guest took it after she had left the room, it does definitely look like that apparition is kind of maybe in like a maids, kind of like those apron, the white apron things. It's been so long since I've seen that picture, but I want to say she was wearing white, so I didn't. [01:31:46] Speaker C: Come across anything on Annie. So can you give us a little brief story about Annie? [01:31:52] Speaker B: Yeah. So there used to be train tracks right behind the Palmer and it was a huge stop for traveling salesmen back in the day. And the story goes that Annie was, I think, like early twenty s and ended up getting pregnant by one of these traveling salesmen. And this story kind of. You hear this a lot with older locations. And then she's standing at the window and waiting for him to come back and he never comes back again. We don't have documentation on Amy. That's kind of her story is just that she got that pregnant and I don't really know. We've never heard what happened to her. If she passed, what happened. But you can definitely feel kind of more shy energy when you go into eleven. I love 1111 is very calming for me. I like to write, so when I want to go down there and just focus on writing, eleven is the room that I pick just because it's a very calming energy in there. And on the other hand, if you bring in sometimes when we'll do tours or whatever, I'll open up the room and let them, if there's no guests in there, let people go in. And if you go in there, kind of like with a stronger personality, especially men, she's going to leave right away and nothing's going to happen in that room. [01:33:24] Speaker C: Wow. [01:33:26] Speaker B: And that is pretty consistent when you have stronger energies and actual people. Energies and more aggressive people. Absolutely nothing's going to happen in that room. And we just think that she probably just leaves because she's like, I don't have to deal with this. I'm going to go bother somebody else. I'm going to go do my own thing, go hang out with Lucy. Right. We're going upstairs. So. Yeah, I really like eleven just because it is a really calming energy. So, yeah, we always say that that's Annie's room. [01:34:02] Speaker C: Okay, well, that's cool. I did not come across Annie at all in my research, so I'm glad that. Yeah, so the basement of the Palmer house is an area that brims with paranormal activity and is notorious for its eerie atmosphere. Many guests and staff members have reported unsettling experiences in the basement, including feelings of being watched, unexplained cold spots, and even encounters with shadowy figures. Some have heard whispers or disembodied voices emanating from the darkness, while others have felt an overwhelming sense of unease upon entering the basement area. And I know you were in the basement with that one gentleman. I can't think of his name. Right. [01:34:45] Speaker B: Chad Lewis. Yes. [01:34:46] Speaker C: And I can't remember? I do talk about, I think, a couple other people from Minnesota in here. I'm wondering if he's one of them. It might not be, but I can't remember the names. I'm horrible at names. Let's see here. There's also stories associated with a former employee named Harvey. And Harvey was a caretaker of the hotel in the. Do you know anything about him? [01:35:15] Speaker B: No. Oh, my God. She's going to kill me if she knows. So Kelly's dad used to live at the hotel and he had his workshop down in the basement. His name started with an h, but it was not Harvey. Okay, Harold. Harold, maybe. Oh, my God, I'm so embarrassed right now. [01:35:39] Speaker C: I should know. Names are hard, too. I just said that. [01:35:43] Speaker B: Right, right. But I know that he had his workshop down in the basement. And there's actually still a lot of stuff of his down there. He used to live at the hotel and then he just ended up getting in such bad health that he had to move in, I believe, with her sister, who was doing more hospice care for him because he just couldn't do the stairs in the hotel anymore. So I'm not sure if that. [01:36:11] Speaker C: It's very close. So it definitely could possibly be. [01:36:17] Speaker B: But yeah, I haven't had experiences with him in the hotel. I'm pretty sure people have, but I have not personally. [01:36:27] Speaker C: And then the last one I believe that we have for ghosts is a bride to be named Rose. [01:36:35] Speaker B: What? [01:36:40] Speaker C: Again, this is why have somebody that has been there is familiar, right? [01:36:46] Speaker B: The Harvey rings a little bit of a bell. Rose means nothing. That doesn't. Bride to be. No, I have no idea who that could be. [01:36:55] Speaker C: And again, for me, it resonates with a lot of tales. Like the lady in white, she was a bride the night before her wedding. It was meant to be a joyous occasion, but she fell down the stairs, met her untimely demise. So to me that was kind of like a yada, yada, yada. [01:37:14] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah. [01:37:16] Speaker C: But I included it because I wasn't sure if it was true or not. And then I had put in here that if this was truly a ghost there, then she could be the lady in white. A bride in her dress. [01:37:30] Speaker B: Right? Yeah, it definitely makes sense. No, that one I have never even heard of. That one is new to me. [01:37:38] Speaker C: Okay, well, and like I said, this is why it's so awesome to have somebody that has been there that worked. Was as soon as I came across that, the tcp paranormal, I was like, I am going to reach out to them because I want firsthand information. [01:37:55] Speaker B: Well, and you just happened to pick the team that one of their members worked there at the powerhouse. So you picked the right one. Yeah, they sent it to me. They're like, hey, can you do this one? I was like, duh. [01:38:06] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:38:06] Speaker B: Follow me. [01:38:07] Speaker C: That was so cool that that ended up working out. [01:38:12] Speaker B: Yes. Absolutely. Nothing's a coincidence. [01:38:15] Speaker C: The other thing I've came across is there's been many, like you said, many different investigators that have been in there. They've captured many different documentations. Evps, unexplained voices. Photographs have revealed mysterious orbs and apparitions. [01:38:31] Speaker A: What about this here? Chris Schneider. [01:38:36] Speaker C: Oh, yes, let me. [01:38:37] Speaker B: Chris? Yeah, what about Chris? [01:38:40] Speaker C: Yeah, he was in the episode. I'm trying to get down there. [01:38:45] Speaker A: You want me to just read enough? [01:38:46] Speaker C: Yeah, definitely. Go for it. [01:38:47] Speaker A: So Chris Schneider, who claims to have experienced possession while exploring the. [01:38:55] Speaker B: She. She just moved down to Florida a couple years ago. We're hoping she comes back, but she's one of Kelly's best friends, really good friends of all of ours. Her and her husband, Bill Schneider, would come up and do investigating all the time. They actually were on, I believe my ghost story, if not more than just my ghost story. Bill ended up passing. Oh, gosh. How long ago has it been now? Seven, maybe seven years. Six or seven years ago. I don't know if you've ever seen the mural of Sinclair Lewis that we ended up painting on the back of the Palmer house. But Chris donated all of the money from the donations for after Bill passed so that we could do that just because the Palmer house was so close to both of them. [01:39:52] Speaker C: Oh, definitely. [01:39:53] Speaker B: So, yeah, she is a sensitive, and she definitely has picked up some pretty crazy things. It's been years since I've seen my ghost story episode, but if you can find it, you can kind of see what happens. I wouldn't say it's a possession, and I wouldn't think that she would call it a possession. She just kind of goes into almost, like, a trance where she kind of just starts getting downloads of information. [01:40:26] Speaker C: Okay. [01:40:27] Speaker B: And just kind of talks. And she doesn't necessarily always know what she's talking about. She's literally just talking about the information that she's being given. And one of those instances, they did capture it and air it on my ghost story. It's definitely interesting if you're not used to kind of seeing stuff like that. [01:40:53] Speaker A: Yeah, I'll definitely be looking that. [01:40:57] Speaker B: It'S. But I know Chris, and she's an amazing person, and she's one of the people that would have been the ones that woke me up at 04:00 in the morning and said, okay, something's off. Let's go do some clearing. Yeah. She moved down to Florida after her. I think her father passed away a few years ago, and she moved down there, so we don't see her too often anymore. But she's always one of our Palmer house family for sure. [01:41:29] Speaker C: That's awesome. So I'm going to kind of dive in a little bit. I'm just going to kind of skip through quickly about the bagel bites episode. [01:41:39] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah. [01:41:41] Speaker C: Basically, he starts off the episode saying that he explores the tragic fire that engulfed the sock center house, discussing the haunting beliefs that individuals were trapped in the basement and met a grim fate within its fiery inferno, which we've already discussed that we don't believe anybody was in the basement, but it's the grand facade of the episode. [01:42:05] Speaker B: Right. [01:42:06] Speaker C: So during his investigation, he interviews Kelly, and they walk through the Palmer house together. They venture into the basement, where Kelly shares a remarkable story involving a stranger who had no prior connection to the Palmer house. The stranger had a vivid dream in which a gentleman appeared, insisting that it was time for this untold story to be revealed. Deeply moved by the dream, the stranger confided in Kelly, disclosing that there was a body buried beneath the basement stairs. So Kelly talks about how she took it upon herself to investigate further, arming herself with a large spoon, and she started to dig. And to her astonishment, she did uncover what she believed to be multiple human rib bones. However, when she returned to the basement the following day, the bones had mysteriously vanished, leaving behind a perplexing mystery that is true. Wow. [01:43:05] Speaker B: And actually, if you go down there, there's still, like, a little tiny shovel. The place that she found the bones is kind of in. It's not easy to get to. It's underneath a hidden set of stairs. And you can't really get to it from the back way either, unless you really crawl back there. And I'm scared of spiders, so I don't do things like that. But, yeah, if you go down, mean, you can still kind of look through the steps on the stairs and you can still see that there's a shovel down. Mean, Kelly and I have talked about it. I guess I don't really know what her theory is on. Think the bones did disappear. We have no idea where they are. We have a little jar of bones down there. So when people come in, if they're down in the basement doing tours or whatever, and they're like, oh, my God, here's the bones that are missing. We're like, no, those are the replicas for the ghost adventures episode. [01:44:05] Speaker C: Oh, funny. [01:44:06] Speaker B: So the ones that are actually down there are literally from the episode. But I think one of the theories that she had, I mean, we never knew. And I don't think that she would have never said, oh, yeah, those are human ribbones. I'm sure she probably didn't know what kind of bones they are. [01:44:26] Speaker C: Maybe she said resembled or something, but they portrayed it as something more. [01:44:31] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't think she's ever really speculated, yes, they are human, but it's 100 something year old basement. [01:44:39] Speaker C: Right. [01:44:39] Speaker B: And it's very largely untouched down there. It's one of the most original parts of the whole building. And if this is going to sound really bad to say, and we're going to put this. My words, not Kelly's words, but if she had called law enforcement and said, I found this curious set of bones, know one of my staircases, it's very likely they would have had to come in and excavate. [01:45:06] Speaker C: Oh, definitely a lot of the area. [01:45:09] Speaker B: And the spirits, if you've ever heard the theory that they don't like renovations, well, it's true. Activity does tend to kick up when you're doing renovations. And spirits don't want things to change. They want them to stay how they know them. So we think maybe in an attempt to make sure that the whole basement floor didn't have to get ripped up, they went missing. We don't know what happened to them. Right. And again, we can't say that they were for sure human bones. They could very well have been animal bones, but we just don't know. But, yeah, somebody literally called her and said, this is going to sound really weird, but I'm getting these dreams and these visions, and she's like, okay, well, let's go see what that's about. And when she actually started digging stuff up, it was kind of like an oh, crap moment. [01:46:06] Speaker C: I'm just grabbing this and I'm going. And I'm going to investigate this. That's awesome. [01:46:11] Speaker B: That's totally Kelly. [01:46:15] Speaker C: So going forward in the episode, they're kind of interviewing Kelly in the basement. She kind of becomes uncomfortable. She feels like she's being surrounded. They decide to take her out of the basement because they could tell that she was definitely feeling effective or affected. And when they got upstairs, Kelly shared an encounter that she had with a black dog possessing red eyes in the basement at one point. [01:46:43] Speaker B: I don't believe Kelly's ever had that experience with the dogs? It's a known thing that there are supposed to be dogs down there. The palmers were avid hunters, and so they would keep their dogs down in the basement. [01:46:58] Speaker C: Okay. [01:46:58] Speaker B: And somehow that's gotten stretched to demon dogs. I don't know. That's. But that's where we went with that, as far as I know. I don't believe Kelly's had an experience with the dogs. Okay. Like, negative wise, but again, like I said, I didn't watch that. I don't. I guess I'm not sure about that one. [01:47:21] Speaker C: The last thing I'm going to cover on their episode is it said that there's a renowned local paranormal investigator, Dave Schrader. Do you know him? [01:47:32] Speaker B: Yep. Okay. [01:47:34] Speaker C: So he recounts a spine chilling encounter that unfolded in the Palmer house basement alongside three fellow investigators. They positioned themselves near the staircase, the very spot where the rumored body was buried. As they fixated their gaze upon the stairs, a face materialized from the shadows and advanced towards them with an eerie intensity. Dave vividly describes this bone chilling sight as the most petrifying experience he has ever witnessed. [01:48:03] Speaker B: I believe that. Yeah. [01:48:05] Speaker C: And I believe that, actually, that was an interview with him. I wrote this story months ago, so I'm trying to. Some of it's a little foggy in my. But. [01:48:15] Speaker B: Right. And Dave used to do a ton of events here at the. I don't. Well, actually, I think he did start doing events back at the Palmer again, but it's kind of one of his favorite places. He's kind of a bigger known celebrity in the paranormal world. He's had a couple shows. Holzerphiles. He's going to kill me because I can't really remember the rest of done a. He's done a lot of work with Kelly, and I've never heard that story, per se, but I do remember one year, it was Halloween, and I was giving some ghost tours, and I had taken some people down the basement, and somebody had asked to see the location where the bones were found. So the easiest way to see it is through that staircase. So I brought her over to the staircase, and she's taken pictures, and we go about our night, go back upstairs eventually, and she freaks out and she comes up to me and shows me a picture that she had taken through the stairs. And you could clearly see ahead with. It looked like a cowboy hat on. It was crazy. It was pretty crazy. And as a, like, I'm like, oh, my mean, that is clear as day. So I definitely believe that Dave probably experienced something because I think that was one of the first times that I ever had actually brought a guest over there to kind of explore the area. And she caught that. Right. And it's pretty cool. Yeah. [01:49:56] Speaker C: So other than that, just to wrap up their episode, they got their, know, little evps and stuff like that here and there. Zach went underneath the stairs and was digging while two, I think it was the gentleman we just talked about. And one of Zach's team members went up to Lucy's room and they asked the question, is anybody here in danger? They got an evp of Zach Baggins and evil. Laughter afterwards. So they went down to the basement. They told them that what they heard. So it's all show show. [01:50:42] Speaker B: Right. [01:50:42] Speaker C: And the only thing that they really had for evidence that they showed was they had cameras set up in the basement, and there was a gray wire hanging down. Then there was an orb that went from one side of the hallway to the other and then towards that wire. And then all of a sudden, the wire started moving. [01:51:05] Speaker B: Oh, interesting. [01:51:06] Speaker C: Yeah. So that was about the extent of the episode. [01:51:11] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm a huge advocate of respecting haunted locations and respecting the paranormal, and I just sometimes think that that is not the focus of that show. Right. [01:51:24] Speaker C: They get a little over the top sometimes. [01:51:27] Speaker B: A little bit. A little bit. You shouldn't go into somebody's house and start yelling at the homeowner. You know what I mean? How would you feel if somebody came into your house and just started yelling at you? I just do things differently. But, yeah, that's literally the only reason I didn't watch it, because I didn't want to feel like it was being disrespectful. But like I said, kelly thought very highly of them. Obviously, shows are for ratings. Any show is going know, kind of skew the truth in the way that they think that it's going to get more viewers. [01:52:05] Speaker C: And that's what I think is the big difference, because I've seen some ghost hunters and some taps episodes where they're like, we got nothing. 90% of the time, they go back to the homeowner and they're like, I'm sorry, we got nothing. [01:52:20] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's surprising because some people get really pissed off when you tell them that. But it's like you're here all the time. We come in one night for maybe 6 hours. [01:52:32] Speaker C: Right. [01:52:33] Speaker B: Just because we didn't catch anything in that 6 hours, that doesn't mean that we don't believe your story. People just want to tell their stories and be heard and not feel crazy. But just because we didn't pick something up in that 6 hours, that definitely doesn't mean it's not haunted. Definitely means that we didn't get anything in that 6 hours. But I tell everybody, if you want to go to a legit haunted place and be in a safe place to experience it, definitely go to the palmer house. [01:53:06] Speaker C: Well, that'll be my first step. [01:53:09] Speaker B: I believe that's a great step. [01:53:12] Speaker A: Let's go. Let's get in the car right now. [01:53:15] Speaker C: We can't. [01:53:15] Speaker B: All right. [01:53:18] Speaker C: They won't take any reservations tonight. [01:53:20] Speaker B: Oh, I couldn't work my magic, but. Just kidding. I can't be driving to sock center right now. But, yes, I would love to go with you guys. [01:53:30] Speaker C: That would be a lot there. [01:53:32] Speaker B: That would be so much fun. [01:53:34] Speaker C: Well, jenny, thank you so much for taking this time with us today. And I definitely want to have you to. I want to cover some more stuff local and some other stuff that you've done. And even if we know, get a couple of people together as well as you and do an episode on the. [01:53:54] Speaker B: Fun waverly hills. Yeah. [01:53:56] Speaker C: Waverly hills. [01:53:57] Speaker B: Yes. Sorry. [01:53:57] Speaker C: That's what I was trying to spit out. I think that would be a fun episode, too, to hear your stories on. [01:54:04] Speaker B: And we could get quite a few people from my team to go on that one because we all have stories, so that would be fun, too. [01:54:10] Speaker C: I love it. Well, we'll do some more collabing via email. And I can't thank you enough for coming on and doing this and taking your time to share all your stories with us. [01:54:22] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you for having me and listening to me gab about things that I love. [01:54:29] Speaker C: I love it. I loved every second of it. [01:54:32] Speaker B: Now I have my information. Yes, I do. And know for any viewers, we're huge on education with tcps, and we just want to help people, whether you're just looking for education on the paranormal or specific locations or if you just have random questions, we love to help. So however we can help, reach out to us, ask questions. We love to talk. [01:54:56] Speaker C: And one more time before we go, share out your information where people can find you and reach you guys. [01:55:02] Speaker B: Yes. So our website and our email is going to be tcpsmn.org. And then email is [email protected] and then Facebook and Instagram. Twin Cities paranormal society. [01:55:22] Speaker C: I love it. [01:55:22] Speaker A: Awesome. [01:55:23] Speaker C: Well, thanks again, and we'll keep in touch and we'll get some other stuff flowing for another episode and maybe an adventure. [01:55:31] Speaker B: Fantastic. Sounds great. Thanks, guys. And you have a good too. Bye. Talk to you later. [01:55:37] Speaker A: Bye bye. Wow, Tracy, that was a great episode. Jenny is hilarious and very informative. [01:55:43] Speaker C: She is a wealth of knowledge. I had so much fun. [01:55:47] Speaker A: Did you book our stay at the Palmer house yet? [01:55:50] Speaker B: Not yet. [01:55:51] Speaker C: We're still recording. Silly. [01:55:53] Speaker A: I thought you were good at multitasking. [01:55:55] Speaker C: Sometimes, but I'm not that good. [01:55:57] Speaker A: Well, let's get on it. [01:55:59] Speaker C: Of course. [01:56:00] Speaker A: Well, that's it for today, folks. Tracy has activities that she needs to get on. [01:56:06] Speaker C: You're like a kid at Christmas wanting to open his presents now. [01:56:10] Speaker A: Hell yeah. [01:56:13] Speaker C: Well, guys, I guess that's it for us today. Thanks again to our special guest, Jenny from tcps and Minnesota taps for joining us. We can't wait to have her come back for sure. [01:56:26] Speaker A: Until next time, smell you later. [01:56:29] Speaker C: Keep on creeping on. We love you. [01:56:32] Speaker A: Bye bye bye. Thanks for hanging out with us here at Total conundrum. Please make sure to check out our website and [email protected] for news, upcoming events, merch, bloopers, and additional hysteria. You never know what will pop up, so be sure to follow along. If you want to show your support for total conundrum and gain access to all of our bonus content, please visit our Patreon page. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. The links are available in our show notes. If you have any questions, comments, recommendations or stories to share, please email us at [email protected] episodes are available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. If you like the show, please rate, review and subscribe on Apple Podcasts. We appreciate the love. Keep on creeping on Mother cluckos. [01:57:32] Speaker B: As I.